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Author Topic: New DE Ship Suggestions  (Read 5534 times)

Offline Fuegan

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New DE Ship Suggestions
« on: June 25, 2009, 10:00:45 PM »
Well well, good to see this project has got off the ground.  Not been around in some time now but kinda hoped the old forums would eventually resurface!  I'd been reading this thread but didn't want to sully an interesting debate on historical naval vessels with some Dark Eldar ship suggestions I have saved from the old SG forums.  So I'll put them here instead.

I didn't write these, someone else on the forums did but I never noted the author, so apologies if it was you, lurker, say so and put me out of my misery!  One of our group plays DE but I'd been modelling these ships for fun.  Sadly, due to an imminent house move anything GW related is packed away in an univiting cardboard box awaiting some clumsy oaf (probably me!) to drop them down two flights of stairs by mistake so I can't show you any of the ideas I'd been throwing together.  I might have put them on the old forums but hey, now I can't find them photos.  Hoho.

So here we are, one grand cruiser and one light cruiser, along with a bit fluff that someone else wrote:

Dark Eldar Enslaver Class Grand Cruiser……………..250 points + weapons
Type/Hits: Cruiser/8
Speed: 35cm
Turns: 90°
Shields: Shadowfield
Armour: 5+
Turrets: 0
Armament: Range/Speed|Firepower/Strength|Fire Arc
Prow Batteries: 45cm|6|F/L
Prow Batteries: 45cm|6|F/R
Enslaver Class Cruisers may have Mimic Engines for + 40 points
In addition, choose one of the following: (you MUST choose one)
Prow Shadow Lances(+30 points) 45cm|2|F
Prow Batteries(+40 points) 45cm|6|F
In addition, choose one of the following: (you MUST choose one)
Keel Torpedoes(+30 points) 30cm|6|Front
Keel Launch Bay(+60 points)    Fighters: 30cm|Bombers: 20cm|Boats: 30cm|4
Impaler Assault Module(+10 points)
Attack Craft: 30cm per turn   Special

You may include one Enslaver Class Cruiser for every two Torture Class Cruisers in your fleet. If you have one, the Archon leading your fleet must be assigned to it.

An Enslaver Class Cruiser lead by an Archon can carry Incubi guards for +20 points; this gives to the ship a +1 bonus on the dice for their boarding actions. Note that will give them a final bonus of +2 on the first turn and nothing on the others. Hit and Run attacks done by the ships don't change.


The Dark Eldar are a plague to most of the inhabited worlds because of their bloody raids and their unquenchable thirst for slaves. For that purpose, their fleets are fast and use hit and run tactics, which make them very difficult to catch. Since their ships are very different from each other, it is hard to say if one of them is another type or just the same class with a personal touch from its captain. However, recent reports show a new Dark Eldar ship, the Enslaver Class Cruiser.

Those were spotted in major fleets only, and it seems that they are main flagships. Not really bigger in size, their firepower is far greater than the regular Torture Class Cruiser. Furthermore, it appears that their resilience makes them difficult to cripple them, and it often carries the bloodier and most fearsome Dark Eldar warriors into battle. Fortunately, they are very rare and it seems that only the most powerful pirate bands can allow themselves to have just one of them.

Dark Eldar Agony Class Light Cruiser……………..130 points + weapons
Type/Hits: Cruiser/4
Speed: 40cm
Turns: 90°
Shields: Shadowfield
Armour: 5+
Turrets: 0
Armament: Range/Speed|Firepower/Strength|Fire Arc
Prow Batteries: 30cm|6|F
Agony Class Light Cruisers may have Mimic Engines for + 40 points
In addition, choose one of the following: (you MUST choose one)
Prow Phantom Lance(+10 points) 30cm|1|F
Prow Torpedo Tubes (+20 points) 30cm|4|F
Impaler Assault Module (+10 points) Attack Craft 30cm per turn|1|F

You can take one Dark Eldar Agony Class Light Cruiser for each two Corsair class escorts you have in your fleet.

Like all others Dark Eldar ships, the Agony Class Light Cruiser doesn't have a typical appearance or armament. It was often mistaken in the past for others Eldar light cruisers, bigger escorts or even small regular cruisers! Fast and murderous, these ships are often seen as the first wave of their pirate fleets with corsair class escorts, allowing time for bigger vessels to place themselves in the right spot to open fire or drop waves of bombers and assault vessels.


Basically, I think the rules were written to tie in with the Armada fleet list and the very nature of the way that was built up would/could allow lots of the light cruisers but you'd need a much bigger non-raidery fleet in order to include the grand cruiser.  Which I would hope would make it pleasingly rare.  Not too sure about the fiddly nature of the prow batteries on the GC either but thats the very nature of discussing it.

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: New DE Ship Suggestions
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2009, 11:11:21 PM »
FP12@45cm which can be pushed to 18 and still have room for keel torps or AC with FOUR Impalers? On an 8HP ship? Even for DE this would take the cake.

Offline Volandum

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Re: New DE Ship Suggestions
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2009, 11:17:35 PM »
I agree with the Admiral; I think you're significantly pushing the power level of the DE.

Offline EasyPrey

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Re: New DE Ship Suggestions
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2009, 08:10:24 PM »
Seriously, guys, whatever happened to:
  • Reading comprehension?
    1. Where does it say the Enslaver gets 4 Impaler modules? It either gets a hangar strength of four (for 60 points) or it gets one Impaler module (for 10 points). Not both at the same time, and certainly not four Impalers.
    2. Who said it was Fuegan that came up with those designs? He actually stated that these designs are not his.
  • Constructive criticism? 'Too strong, me don't like!' doesn't do the trick in the slightest.

The most expensive Enslaver variant (without mimic engines) comes in at 350 points:
  • Eldar weapons batteries, Range 45 cm, FP 6, F/L
  • Eldar weapons batteries, Range 45 cm, FP 6, F/R
  • Eldar weapons batteries, Range 45 cm, FP 6, F
  • Hangar strength 4 (Eldar fighters, Eldar bombers, Dark Eldar assault boats)

Compared to the Void Stalker at 380 points:
  • 2 Pulsar lances, same range, same firearc
  • 2 Pulsar lances, same range, same firearc
  • Slightly stronger (FP 8 vs 6) EWBs with L/F/R firearc
  • Same hangar strength on both ships, but the Enslaver has ABs, as well

There are fleet restrictions to take into account, as well:
You need two Tortures to get one Enslaver, and for those Tortures you need three Corsairs each; together that's 6 Corsairs for 50 points each and 2 Tortures for (at least) 230 points each. Add to this the cheapest Enslaver at 290 points and you get 1050 points, without the Dread Archon you'd have to take at 750 points already (which has to be on the Enslaver, so the ship costs at least 390 points).
So it's rarer than the Void Stalker (of which you can get one per 1000 points).

And we didn't even mention survivability, speed and manouverability yet. Still think it's too strong?
It's curtains for you, Dr. Horrible! Gently wafting, lacy curtains ...

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: New DE Ship Suggestions
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2009, 10:02:54 PM »
Seriously, guys, whatever happened to:
  • Reading comprehension?
    1. Where does it say the Enslaver gets 4 Impaler modules? It either gets a hangar strength of four (for 60 points) or it gets one Impaler module (for 10 points). Not both at the same time, and certainly not four Impalers.
Ok, that was a mistake in reading but it did look like a list where the Impaler was chopped to the next column.

2. Who said it was Fuegan that came up with those designs? He actually stated that these designs are not his.[/li]
[li]Constructive criticism? 'Too strong, me don't like!' doesn't do the trick in the slightest.[/li]
[/list]

Regardless of whether it was him who came up with it or not, 'Too strong, me don't like!' is enough to tell the OP to have whoever did the design re-do it. I'm not going to fix it for him 100% and I did point out having FP18@45cm WBs would be too much.


And we didn't even mention survivability, speed and manouverability yet. Still think it's too strong?

Yes, we didn't even mention those yet (which I don't think are wrong with the DE ship) and yes, it would be too strong at 350 points, even factoring the restrictions in. Remember, this is just a GC, not a BB. The VS has always been an aberration for me. It should not have gotten around the battleship restrictions.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2009, 10:12:02 PM by Admiral_d_Artagnan »

Offline fracas

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Re: New DE Ship Suggestions
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2009, 10:56:39 PM »
i would not make a GC
a GC can be squadroned with cruisers
a BB cannot

Offline RayB HA

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Re: New DE Ship Suggestions
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2009, 04:17:12 AM »
GC's can't be squadroned with cruisers! (Rule book pg 105 2nd column)

Cheers,

RayB HA
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When I joined the Corp we didn't have any fancy smancy tanks! We had sticks! Two sticks and a rock for an entire platoon, and we had to share the rock!

Offline Fuegan

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Re: New DE Ship Suggestions
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2009, 01:48:07 PM »
Hmmm, I actually think the Enslaver was originally designed as a Flame equivalent rather than a Void Stalker equivalent, but I can see how the batteries could be quite powerful.

Is it the overall firepower (18 potential and 2 more than the Flame) or the 45cm range that tips it?  I always figured the creator had gone for longer range due to the overall lack of manoeuvrability compared with the Flame.  Would the 12 +6 be better at 30cm?

As EasyPrey has compared the most expensive Enslaver with the Void Stalker, if you then compare this to the Flame you get something 30 points more expensive, with 2 extra firepower (albeit with a longer range and some lateral firing ability) but no pulsar lances.  Everything else is very similar, although there are more restrictions to getting an Enslaver than a Flame.

Just suggesting that overall I don't see how its too far out of kilter with another similar ship, but further comments and criticism is obviously welcome.

Offline fracas

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Re: New DE Ship Suggestions
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2009, 06:20:32 PM »
GC's can't be squadroned with cruisers! (Rule book pg 105 2nd column)

Cheers,

RayB HA


you are correct!

Offline fracas

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Re: New DE Ship Suggestions
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2009, 06:23:10 PM »
18 FP at 45cm is a bit strong

i rather it field 12 at max, at either 6 RF and 6 FL than 4 RF, 4 RFL, 4 FL

if the ship is to be an enslaver, i would make it take at least one impaler (and allow it up to 3 total?)

Offline marengo

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Re: New DE Ship Suggestions
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2009, 03:01:50 PM »
Hmm, when is a battleship not a battleship? Answer, when it is a Grand Cruiser.

Unless I have missed something, arn't the imperium/chaos the only forces that currently have Grand Cruisers (and Chaos only have a total of 12 in the entire universe).

If you are looking to introduce a Grand Cruiser into the DE list, then when the fleet is quite fast, such as Chaos and DEs, then GCs should be slower than a cruiser.

Looking at the Repulsive, it has 33-40% increase in firepower over the murder, plus torps, plus an extra turret but is 5cm slower. Also, in the Chaos list the GCs don't have any longer range than the usual cruiser types so IMO and DE, GC should only have range 30.

I would also limit them to 1 in the fleet.

Offline bukdub

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New DE Ship Suggestions
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2009, 06:23:50 PM »
Ditto with Anth.Besides, comparing this to BF2 is like saying Mario 64 is either an RPG or an FPS :/.BF2 was made by a real company, and it is not free.And meh. If the game brings new activity to the site, we might as well.

Offline horizon

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Re: New DE Ship Suggestions
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2009, 08:18:20 PM »
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