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Author Topic: Hero rules: Craftworld Eldar vs FAQ (both 2010 Compendium.  (Read 2730 times)

Offline horizon

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Hero rules: Craftworld Eldar vs FAQ (both 2010 Compendium.
« on: August 23, 2011, 04:21:19 AM »
Hi,

Can someone tell me what the gist is of the Eldar Hero in relation to:
* Flame of Asuryan
* Craftworld & Corsair Eldar Fleets

Something iffy happened to the craftworld pdf and now it contradicts the FAQ.

Since I don't use the official rules for Eldar it doesn't matter to me but I'd like to get a clarification for those who do.

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Hero rules: Craftworld Eldar vs FAQ (both 2010 Compendium.
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2011, 08:10:29 AM »
Well Nate's Craftworld Eldar rules are not official as far as I'm aware, so the FAQ 2010 rules are the correct ones. If/when they do become official they will supersede the FAQ 2010 rules. At which point Corsair Eldar players will need to take 3 CE cruisers, as well as a hero, before being allowed to take the FoA. This seems a bit odd to me, since the Flame of Asuryan, while craftworld built, is actually a corsair vessel, and as such I could well imagine it operating with only corsair escorts for support.

However, before these new CWE rules come into effect there are a number of oddities that should be addressed, including the one highlighted above. Firstly, it says the FoA may have Vampire assault boats included in its cost. This is strange wording and amounts basically to the option of taking them for free. So, why wouldn't you? It should simply have Vampire assault boats amended to its profile.

Vampire assault boats: Speaking of the Vampire a-boats, why are they so slow? This is Eldar we're talking about. They aren't resilient. They don't count as fighters. They're not Thunderhawks. So why not 30cm speed? For a whopping +10 pts per ship (costs twice as much as the for Emperor, getting half as many) I don't think it's too much to ask that they be as fast as IN/Chaos a-boats.

Fleet Commander: Another oddity is that an Autarch allows for an unrestricted Dragonship, but a Hero does not. Presumably this is meant to be for any Fleet Commander, but this is not how it's worded. Also, in the fleet list Iyanden is purchased simply as an Autarch, not as a Hero. In which he is costed at only 100 pts and allowed to purchase a re-roll for +25 pts. Looking at his special rules we see his cost is actually 125-150 pts, not 100 pts, that he has a re-roll and Aspect Warriors and that ... he's not a Hero. Nothing says he counts as a Hero. It is implied that he is, since he can presumably lead a Corsair fleet, but that is all. Also, when purchasing more re-rolls it says he must buy a second and third re-roll (rather than may). It then says that he uses the price of Hero re-rolls, but there is still some confusion as to how much these are going to cost. For example is the cost of a "2nd Hero re-roll" 75 pts (and hence the third is 100 pts), since that's what it costs for 2, or is it 25 pts since this is the difference in cost between the first and second re-rolls (and so another 25 pts for the third)? Or is it 50 pts as if you were just buying 1 re-roll? If so the the third one would be another 25 pts (so +75 total) but you could not then buy the last re-roll. Altogether very poorly worded and confusing.

My guess is that Iyanden counts as a hero, costs 150 pts, comes with Aspect Warriors and 1 re-roll and can buy +1 RR for 50 pts or +2 RR for 75 pts. He must be aboard a Dragonship carrier which has Vampire assault boats and he costs 25 pts less when on the Flame of Asuryan (which he must be aboard if it's present).

While on the topic of fleet commanders, what's with the re-rolls? I appreciate the addition of a cheaper admiral, but compared to an IN or Chaos FC Eldar are still being gypped. For 25 pts less the other races get a Ld 8 commander with a re-roll. So, -1 leadership, sure, but Eldar ships pay a premium for their higher Leadership, and so it could be argued that they should get a Ld 9 commander with a re-roll for 50 pts (ie, since the +1 Ld is being paid for by the ship there's no reason to pay again on the FC). Surely at 75 pts we're well and truly into safe enough territory to at least give them the free re-roll that other races already enjoy?

Reserve rules: Seriously, these rules totally gimp any Craftworld/Corsair interaction. They should be dropped and replaced with "you may spend up to 1 third of your points on vessels from the reserve fleet list, observing all fleet composition restrictions of that list".

Ghostships: A lot of downsides for very little upside (particularly in a ruleset whereby the biggest defence is simply not being shot at anyway). If they're really all that much more robust and don't have to worry about keeping a crew alive, et al. then give them a couple of extra hit points or something. Or at the very least give them a direct fire keel weapon so they're not always impersonating deer caught in the headlights of an oncoming truck when they fail a reload check.




Offline horizon

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Re: Hero rules: Craftworld Eldar vs FAQ (both 2010 Compendium.
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2011, 08:39:36 AM »
Well Nate's Craftworld Eldar rules are not official as far as I'm aware, so the FAQ 2010 rules are the correct ones. If/when they do become official they will supersede the FAQ 2010 rules.
As far as I know FAQ2010 and the drafts belong to one compendium Nate & friends have submitted to GW.
So officially seen both have the same status at this point.

Quote
At which point Corsair Eldar players will need to take 3 CE cruisers, as well as a hero, before being allowed to take the FoA. This seems a bit odd to me, since the Flame of Asuryan, while craftworld built, is actually a corsair vessel, and as such I could well imagine it operating with only corsair escorts for support.
In case of the Flame of Asuryan it depends on the timeline you play.
First it was the flagship of Craftworld Iyanden, then Yriel left and became a Corsair with the Flame, then at 999m41 Yriel came back to rescue Iyanden. Merging Corsair & Craftworld fleet. What happens next?
To add diversity to the Craftworld fleet the Flame of Asuryan should be renamed Void Dragon Class Grand Cruiser/Battle Cruiser. This ship should be a regular Craftworld option being 1 per 1000/750 or 1 per admiral or 1 per 3 cruisers.

Then one can take a standard Hero. Giving a reserve rule like this for Eldar:
Quote
Reserve rules: Seriously, these rules totally gimp any Craftworld/Corsair interaction. They should be dropped and replaced with "you may spend up to 1 third of your points on vessels from the reserve fleet list, observing all fleet composition restrictions of that list".
A hero has no restrictions on which ship he goes.

Then we can create a special rule for Yriel. Yriel can take the Flame of Asuryan which is a Void Dragon with something extra (speed?). Yriel has aspect warriors and vampires in his cost. Leadership 10 and 1 re-roll. Extra re-rolls for +25pts.
Then he can mix & match Corsair & Craftworld 50/50

Furthermore:
Quote
However, before these new CWE rules come into effect there are a number of oddities that should be addressed, including the one highlighted above. Firstly, it says the FoA may have Vampire assault boats included in its cost. This is strange wording and amounts basically to the option of taking them for free. So, why wouldn't you? It should simply have Vampire assault boats amended to its profile.
Yeah, oddball. They pasted the text from the FAQ2010. Just update the profile if you keep it like that.

Quote
Vampire assault boats: Speaking of the Vampire a-boats, why are they so slow? This is Eldar we're talking about. They aren't resilient. They don't count as fighters. They're not Thunderhawks. So why not 30cm speed? For a whopping +10 pts per ship (costs twice as much as the for Emperor, getting half as many) I don't think it's too much to ask that they be as fast as IN/Chaos a-boats.
Agreed.

Quote
Fleet Commander: Another oddity is that an Autarch allows for an unrestricted Dragonship, but a Hero does not. Presumably this is meant to be for any Fleet Commander, but this is not how it's worded. Also, in the fleet list Iyanden is purchased simply as an Autarch, not as a Hero. In which he is costed at only 100 pts and allowed to purchase a re-roll for +25 pts. Looking at his special rules we see his cost is actually 125-150 pts, not 100 pts, that he has a re-roll and Aspect Warriors and that ... he's not a Hero. Nothing says he counts as a Hero. It is implied that he is, since he can presumably lead a Corsair fleet, but that is all. Also, when purchasing more re-rolls it says he must buy a second and third re-roll (rather than may). It then says that he uses the price of Hero re-rolls, but there is still some confusion as to how much these are going to cost. For example is the cost of a "2nd Hero re-roll" 75 pts (and hence the third is 100 pts), since that's what it costs for 2, or is it 25 pts since this is the difference in cost between the first and second re-rolls (and so another 25 pts for the third)? Or is it 50 pts as if you were just buying 1 re-roll? If so the the third one would be another 25 pts (so +75 total) but you could not then buy the last re-roll. Altogether very poorly worded and confusing.
Jibberish! All of it!  ;D

Quote
Ghostships: A lot of downsides for very little upside (particularly in a ruleset whereby the biggest defence is simply not being shot at anyway). If they're really all that much more robust and don't have to worry about keeping a crew alive, et al. then give them a couple of extra hit points or something. Or at the very least give them a direct fire keel weapon so they're not always impersonating deer caught in the headlights of an oncoming truck when they fail a reload check.
Agreed.



Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Hero rules: Craftworld Eldar vs FAQ (both 2010 Compendium.
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2011, 10:36:20 AM »
Well Nate's Craftworld Eldar rules are not official as far as I'm aware, so the FAQ 2010 rules are the correct ones. If/when they do become official they will supersede the FAQ 2010 rules.
As far as I know FAQ2010 and the drafts belong to one compendium Nate & friends have submitted to GW.
So officially seen both have the same status at this point.

Well the 2010 FAQ is, as far as I'm aware, merely awaiting a rubber stamp. I myself dislike quite a few rule changes and interpretations in it, but there you go. The other files however I have personally saved into a folder entitled "Nate's Natterings" as I don't see them as being official at all. This is in part due to the absurdity of some elements (the entire Chaos Powers document for example) but also because I get the impression that they've mostly been put together by Nate with little discussion with the other HA members. More importantly however, they are new rules and fleets, for which SG should participate in creating (unlike some FAQ clarifications and basic rule interpretations and tweaks where they can just shrug and go "sure, whatever").

Offline RayB HA

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Re: Hero rules: Craftworld Eldar vs FAQ (both 2010 Compendium.
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2011, 02:40:53 PM »
Neither are official, however i would use the FAQ rules for the Hero.

Sig,

All of the the last batch of additions were discussed for a fair amount of time. A couple of tweaks like the SC's 2nd shield were sneakily popped in before Nate 'went to sea'.  ::)

Cheers,

RayB HA
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When I joined the Corp we didn't have any fancy smancy tanks! We had sticks! Two sticks and a rock for an entire platoon, and we had to share the rock!

Offline horizon

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Re: Hero rules: Craftworld Eldar vs FAQ (both 2010 Compendium.
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2011, 02:45:41 PM »
Hey,
okay, FAQ rules it is. For now.

But it wasn't sneaked in. Not to us at least. The masses knew. :)

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: Hero rules: Craftworld Eldar vs FAQ (both 2010 Compendium.
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2011, 09:14:56 AM »
Yes Ray. Stop with this "sneaking" accusations. The SM changes were provided and went through several iterations and the 2nd shield was one of the early adoptions. Not our fault you weren't on the ball.

If anything, it's that lance option that was sneaked in near the end.