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Author Topic: Custom made ship class: Liberator Grand Cruiser  (Read 2376 times)

Offline Lleman

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Custom made ship class: Liberator Grand Cruiser
« on: August 05, 2011, 10:12:45 AM »
Hi all. Usually being a lurker in these parts, i for once get out of my burrow to write a post and receive opinions and c&c on a grand cruiser variant i made a couple of years ago to complement my SW planetary assault fleet.
Point values have been worked using the Smotherman formula (yes, i know, not widely liked due to several issues, but that was all i had back then).
This class variant, the Liberator, is based on the Repulsive and intended as a SM venerable battlebarge only (see fluff text for reasons).
The datasheet pdf is up for grab HERE.
Feedback is much anticipated, hold no punch. ;)

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: Custom made ship class: Liberator Grand Cruiser
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2011, 03:17:03 PM »
Removed one WB bay and it still has FP10 out of FP14? And replaced it with Str 2 TH bay, the equivalent of Str 4 regular AC? I think not.

Offline Lleman

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Re: Custom made ship class: Liberator Grand Cruiser
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2011, 03:58:49 PM »
Well, that's the point of this thread, get input and make it a credible ship. However i'd like to know what modifications you'd consider bringing to it. "I think not." doesn't quite cover it. ;)
Also, if that helps, i took into account the point cost for the WB but decided to indeed not implement it as 'add a physical bay + another' (is that what you're suggesting?). This ship's profile, i must say, wasn't made from 'deconstructing' the Repulsive then adding stuff in, but rather made from scratch using, as i mentioned, the smotherman's formula, hence the possible discrepancies in the cost-to-effectiveness line.

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Custom made ship class: Liberator Grand Cruiser
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2011, 04:00:01 PM »
Indeed, 10WB@45cm from 1 hardpoint is too much. The number of AC from the bays would be fine if it were normal, but SM venerable BBs halve the normal amount when swapping to THs. I don't think this is entirely fair, but it is the precedent.

I converted a Repulsive by swapping the prow with a cut down Despoiler prow (called it Scorpion class). For the stats I just dropped out the torps and replaced it with a str 4 launch bay and bumped its price up. This might be more along the lines of what you're looking for if you want to keep your broadside firepower. It would also allow you to drop it down to a str 3 prow TH bay, which I think is a fairer trade than halving and is plausible. The cost would be probably about 290 including the SM rules (no shield/range upgrade).

Offline Lleman

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Re: Custom made ship class: Liberator Grand Cruiser
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2011, 05:55:44 PM »
Aright, thanks for the input.
Actually, the bay capacity has indeed been halved from the original strength when shifting the ship to SM; i once wondered about the fairness of it but, well, just ended up using it with my fellow players' agreement who didn't mind it.
I'll certainly dig in the direction of your conversion example however. To the calculator !

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Custom made ship class: Liberator Grand Cruiser
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2011, 07:06:11 PM »
Ah, well we tend to observe precedents with regards to maximum potential strength for any given hardpoint on any given hull type. For example, the Dictator, Mars and Devastation all have one launch bay hardpoint each side and they can only send out 2 AC from each. This is as good as it gets for AC. The Emperor and Oberon replicate this achievement, but the Styx falls to 1.5 AC per hardpoint and the grand cruisers drop to just the 1 AC per hardpoint.

The Despoiler manages to stuff this up (as, consequently, do the Despoiler derivatives) by having, nominally, 4 AC per hardpoint. However, while the Despoiler has double the AC it should per bay it also has half the WB strength it should given the number of hardpoints. So this looks like a simple problem of misrepresentation. So a Despoiler should be modelled with 2 launch bay hardpoints and 1 WB hardpoint per side to better reflect its stats. Of course, there is still the issue of the massive prow launch bay which is not reflected in the stats and this really takes the ship beyond a simple fix of swapping a WB hardpoint for a launch bay. Hence the reason why we've come up with alternate stats for the Despoiler model. Basically the broadside WBs were increased to match the model layout (to str 10), the broadside bays were reduced to bring it in-line with all the other ships and instead of prow lances or torps it was given a str 4 launch bay.

An alternative to using these stats would be to use the original stats but convert the prow. I have a Despoiler with a Repulsive prow (torp Despoiler) and another one with the prow launch bay "closed" (to represent the lance version) as well as a stock Despoiler model (to represent the forum adjusted profile).