Admech Ramblings

[Vaaish]

Well, with the new PDF's and the prospect of more turrets for all (this is becoming a theme!), I decided to revisit the ideas I had for an AdMech list and have it figured down to three possibilities. I find all three a bit odd since the firepower calculations are something around 1/3 greater than they were in my previous attempts.

List 1:
3x hunter
3x Sword +turret
2x Lunar + boosted batteries
3x Endeavour + Boosted batteries + lance
Oberon

List 2:
5x Gladius + turret
2x Lunar + boosted batteries
3x Endeavour + Boosted batteries + lance
Oberon

List 3:
5x sword+ turret
2x Lunar + boosted batteries
3x Endeavour + Boosted batteries + lance
Retribution + NC

The last list had to take hte NC to fill up points. List two and three have every ship outside of the BB with 3 turrets each which should make the whole fleet pretty tough to crack with ordnance and leave me with a few AC to put on cap. THe last fleet interests me because the high turrets seems to open the door to just dropping the oberon entirely and gain a bit more speed and lance power. Any thoughts?

[RCgothic]

With a minimum of 3 turrets across the fleet, you're probably right that you could survive without a carrier. You're probably half as vulnerable to bombers as a usual fleet, and the Retribution's long range works better with Ad Mech who need to stick at range. (This advice would reverse if you were to use BFG:R rules however).

Personally I'd drop the Swords and NC and take 2 squadrons of 3x cobras - the mini-salvoes will help to clear the way for your bigger ships' salvoes.

[Vaaish]

The added torpedoes probably could help especially with the loss of the AC to clear torp waves and CAP, but going all cobras gives me a lot of 1 turret 4+ armor ships in there that become inviting targets with the rest of the fleet having better turret defenses and I'm unsure that would work as well. I think that does bring me down to two lists though:

5x Gladius + turret
2x Lunar + boosted batteries
3x Endeavour + Boosted batteries + lance
Oberon

I like this one for the firepower and turret defenses and that the oberon is effectively impervious to bombers. The AC gives me a bit control of torpedo interception with CAP to block shotgun range torps and the ability to maneuver to intercept. I do lose out on 5cm speed with the oberon and the 6+ prow.

3x Cobra
3x Sword + Turret
2x Lunar + Boosted Batteries
3x Endeavour + Lance + Boosted Batteries
Retribution

This is a hybrid with what you suggested RC. I like that there is a fairly high amount of torpedoes and that the ret can keep up with the fleet. I could even swap out one endeavor for an endurance which would give me enough points to take the turrets or change to hunters. Still not sure though. I like both fleets but the second option would run a good bit differently from my typical fleet so it might be more interesting.

[RCgothic]

If you want something that plays differently, you should be going with the second list, however the weakness of the Cobras is a very good point. There's no point in fortifying your fleet against AC only to leave some weak links in there. I think your suggestion of dropping an Endeavour for an Endurance and then taking Hunters is a good one.

You lose a bit of range, but S3Lances and 2WBs is still pretty good, whilst the mobile firepower of the swords is perhaps less useful in a fleet with a high proportion of light cruisers than additional ordnance would be.

Horizon has more experience of Ad Mech than me though, you should probably get his opinion.

[Vaaish]

Well after giving the oberon based List one from my last post a shot over the weekend, I have to say that Admech has yet again failed to perform reasonably well for me. Part was probably due to game circumstances, but part I think was that the cruisers are so expensive meaning that if you lose one you're basically screwed. Since they range from 215 points on up, all it takes is one going down and one crippled and you can disengage with enough VP to cover the 10% points you give up. I went with a second list in a last ditch effort to see if I could find something that worked as a basis for the fleet. In that game I ended up taking 2x lunar and an endeavour, 2x tyrants with boosted batteries, and 2x gothic. I think the dice gods were feeling sorry for the last game where my oberon went up in flames in a single round of shooting where I couldn't brace and I had quite a few lucky dice rolls (one lunar successfully saved all 5 hits from enemy bombers) but I did end up doing a fair bit of damage and eaking out a small victory after the chaos fleet disengaged.

Since that fleet used very little of the Admech bonus upgrades like extended range, NC, or even the boosted turrets on escorts, that got me thinking perhaps more escorts and fewer cruisers would work better. So I've got a another list to try:

List 1:
8x Gladius
5x Hunter
2x Lunar + Boosted Batteries
Endeavour + Lance + Boosted Batteries
Oberon

I still like the look of the Oberon and I already have one ret, so I thought I'd try this. I am a little torn about which route to go since the 20cm speed and awr is nice on the ret as are the torpedoes.

[Vaaish]

Further musings have me liking the lunar/endeavour squadron since you get 14 batteries @ 45cm and 4 lances for 360 points which clocks in at cheaper than the standard IN dom/gothic combo though lacking a NC and a couple of hits. This Could probably be accommodated by dropping the boosted batteries on the Lunar and instead taking a NC taking the cost to 370 same as the dom/gothic and packing basically the same load out but with the admech gifts and turrets. Unfortunately, that's also pretty close to the fleets I use with regular IN which I'm not sure I want to go with.

The next option would be to instead take the gothic instead of the lunar which somehow feels more admech and uses a completely different ship selection but doesn't really change anything in the scope of things. It does open up a couple of points for gladius rather than swords.

Either way, I'm thinking more escorts than I originally thought, but less than I'd fiddled with in my last list. To keep with odd squadrons and keep up decent firepower, I'm thinking 5x swords/gladius and 5x hunter. Hunters need to be taken because of their speed and extra armor. THe swords would probably be best despite the loss of speed, but I was kind of hoping to use the GW gladius models which fit nicely with the admech look rather than the swords. It's really the difference of taking lunars without boosted batteries or gothics.

That leaves me with this as my test lists:

5x Sword
5x Hunter
2x Lunar + Boosted Batteries
2x Endeavour + Lance + Boosted Batteries
Retribution

or

5x Gladius
5x Hunter
2x Gothic
2x Endeavour + Lance + Boosted Batteries
Oberon

I am more leaning toward the second list, but with the gothics swapped out for stock lunars.

[horizon]

Heh, this sounds like a tactical admech warfleet.

Background wise thou should keep in mind that most of the time AdMech ships are alone wandering through the universe. Perhaps with an attendant vessel.
Escorts do this too but more locally near AdMech bases I reckon.

So when they muster the rare warfleet it will be most of the time ships pulled together from various locations and thus a more random selection then 2 gothics, 2 endeavours.

From this point of view I would recommend a list with Gothic/Lunar and Endavour/Endurance.

But, alas, maybe your fleet comes directly from Mars to attack Terra.

[Vaaish]

As I said over on warseer, I gravitate toward duplicates out of personal taste since I think it looks better on the table. It is an interesting concept to do an asymmetrical fleet though and completely rubs me the wrong way

Since the last four fleet trials have ended up something like this:
Engagement one: PK trashes escorts and gothic. Endeavour crippled, Oberon crippled. Disengaged
Engagement two: more bad things.
Engagement three: Mission subplot doesn't let me use SO for 3 turns, Oberon hulked, rest of the fleet crippled, escorts lost from AB despite extra turrets. Technically a win because I managed to cripple my target.
Engagement four: All cruisers. AAF unload torpedoes, actually managed to cripple most of the Chaos fleet for the loss of both gothics only one of which ever managed to shoot.