RS Ork Ruleset

[RCgothic]

I'm not sure this "Right Shift" mechanism will have quite the effect you anticipate.

For a start, a right shift has no effect on the rightmost column of the gunnery table. This means that a right shift and firepower boost actually improves the orks long-range firepower.

Then, because of the non-linearity of the gunnery table, a right-shift harms high firepower values far more than it harms low firepower values.

For example, RS+1FP results in pretty much no change for FP up to a value of 5. The rightmost column on average is also mostly unchanged, with the odd extra dice, whilst FP12 and over loses at least 2 dice in almost every circumstance (bar the rightmost long-range column)

If you make it RS+FP3, then the rightmost column gets an extra D6 on 60% of occasions, FP3-11 usually gain at least a D6 in the two leftmost columns, whilst FP16 and above are still losing at least D6 in all but the rightmost column.

You would be making orks better at >30cm range and individual escorts/low firepower ships better at short range, whilst nerfing any squadrons or battleships.

[lastspartacus]

I'm assuming the last sentence is the basic thesis.

Firstly, I don't think Orks, due to their strong escorts and need to squadron, will be firing much in the low end of the chart.

Also, the idea of RS Orks is that the Orks put out a larger amount of firepower than is normal for their ships, but the massive defeciencies and inaccuracies on the ships lead to average firepower.  While hindering the overall firepower, the sheer weight of fire does allow for better chances against escorts and ordnance.

As to long range benefits, its a double shift, so I wouldn't consider firing at the extreme right of the gunnery chart to be too scary.
Also, RS Orks don't have much that can shoot over 30cm.  str10 on the Terror Ship, the Ammer class gunz, and half the unique battleships.

[lastspartacus]

Also, on cap ships, Ramshackle makes the firepower unreliable.

[lastspartacus]

made some adjustments to the hammer, dethdeala, and kroolboy.  Switched names on the BB's, and made a tweak.

Slight nerf to Rok. 

For 'Wut you say?'  I was thinking, shouldnt it still count as a failed SO for purposes of continuining the SO's?

[lastspartacus]

Trouble deciding if current Onlsaughts are worth 35 or 40.

I really would appreciate input on points cost.

[RCgothic]

This is what I mean regarding the right shift not having a linear effect:



Top Left is the gunnery table.
Top 2nd from left is the gunnery table right-shifted.
Top 3rd from left is the difference in dice between the gunnery chart and a right-shifted version. As you can see, the rightmost column is unchanged, whilst the chart really haemorrhages dice at high firepowers.
Top Right is the difference in dice if the chart is right shifted with a FP increase of 1.
The Bottom row show RS plus FP 2, 3, 4 and 5.

As you can see, the rightmost column gets steadily better as you add additional FP, representing a buff to the orks long-range firepower.
The bottom of the chart also gets steadily better; by the time you get to +2FP, FP6 and under is almost without exception improved. At RS+3, you can be pretty confident that FP13 and under probably won't be worse than without a shift.

Meanwhile, the upper end of the chart still haemorrhages dice. If we were thinking about IN Dominators, on the regular chart 2x FP12 isn't really any difference from FP24. Ork ships using the RS rules would be far better off firing individually than grouped: The hypothetical 2x FP12 or 1x FP24 does 2 or 3 times worse than if they were firing individually.

If you think about 5 FP4 escorts on RS+3, they get an additional 10 dice in the leftmost column compared to the standard chart, and lose 1 dice in comparison when firing together. That's an 11 dice incentive to only take minimally sized squadrons.

Now if you're happy with this I guess that's OK, but remembering to add an extra modifier, combined with the fact you're buffing the RH side of the chart whilst nerfing squadrons, seems like a lot of faff to me just to put a higher stat in the profile.

[lastspartacus]

If it became an issue, it would absolutely be acceptable to get rid of RS and lower everyones firepower by 2-3.
I havn't had an issue remembering it, more than any other race's special rule.  Just as Eldar get their left shift for accuracy, and Orks and their dakka is a well known fact, I thought RS would be a natural way to represent their innacuracy but enthusiasm.  Not to mention explaining why heavy gunz dont left shift.

The intent was indeed to make it so that orks, through weight of fire, had crappy shooting but always would have a few shots hit home due to weight of fire.

Also, the 'gubbins' and clan upgrades havn't been added yet, but the leadership issue is a big reason not to bring escort squadrons, besides the greater value in squadron upgrades.  Orks love squadroning. 

[lastspartacus]

Added a WIP of gubbins and such.  Input! 

[lastspartacus]

More tweaks.  Biggest consideration currently is price of ravager and onslaught.  Input welcome.  Got a 2000 point game against all demiurg fleet to test it out.

[lastspartacus]

For pure simplicity, I am considering your points on the right shift, RCGothic.

Had a 2k fight against admech a week ago.  Here are my rough conclusions:

Ork leadership is a big negative.  I got my one big salvo of torpedoes off, and never got a RO for the rest of the game, mainly due to need for either AAF or BFI.  If would like to see how it would have done if it had gotten higher leadership rolls.

I am considering if 2d6 AAF, even if 'free', is worth it.  With superior long range bombardment that the AM have, I found all that AAF did was negate blast marker speed reduction.  It was a planetary assault scenario, something Orks should absolutely excel at, yet by turn 5 I had made it 2/3 of the way to the planet, between 2d6 AAF and need to BFI.  This was compounded by forced squadroning.

10 escort ork squadrons are scary, but very unwieldy. 

Even with a big increase in Ork shooting, at extreme close range, I was only able to do decent damage.
It was altogether rather one sided. The forces broke down thusly:


Dethdeala
3 kill kroozers with ram prows
2 terror ships with ram prows
2 assault kroozers
10 savages
8 brutes
4 onslaughts
3 big bosses, one on the dethdeala with mania gunners, two on the assault kroozers with extra power fields.

vs

Omnissiahs Victory
3 lunars with novas
4 endeavours
6 falchions in 2 groups
all cap ships with the advanced weapon refit allowed in the alternate admech rules.

After an inconclusive first 5 turns fighting only the lunars and battleship, with the planetary defences and the endeavors yet to be dealth with, I conceded and let my friend go see his girlfriend:)

Thoughts?

[Plaxor]

LS, although I do like your RS idea, the problem with having such short range on EXTREMELY SLOW vessels is that they usually won't be able to fight with long range weedy foes. I would give some weapons 45cm, even if it's just a little.

[lastspartacus]

I wish it wasn't necessary.  45cm range, in my heart, feels rarer than the standard Ork kroozer.

I would rather AAF be naturally taken on 4d6.  Giant engines feels more Orky than long range guns, wouldn't you agree?  I don't feel it naturally breaks them.

[nes990620]

Yeah, that's right!!!