Fantasy settings, some thoughts

[jchaos79]

I like fantasy and I love history. Because of that I tried different wargame systems. When I discovered WM some years ago I found a system that works for me ( I am not going to say that is the best, but I only say that is the one I really enjoy). I had use WM and WMA rules for different games in different settings as Old World, Lords of rings, my beloved Glorantha and even we played in Willow "the film" setting. I also enjoyed gaming in Bronze age, Classic era, Middle ages and Renaissance.

I tried other scales than 10mm. I had to say that 2mm and 6mm are really exciting for me. Sometimes I went back to 28mm, maybe nostalgia or maybe because that scale is also good, but the lack of scenery and a lack of ruleset that hook me makes me drop the scale over and over again.

So, where is my point? My point is I really like 10mm scale and WM / WMA ruleset. The rest is just fun, whatever setting and army to build is welcome for me. I enjoyed a lot building fishmen army.

And how about you?

Last year, as everybody knows, GW drop the Old World setting, bringin to live the Age of Sigmar (AoS)setting. I am not going to bring the discussion of which of those settings are better, but I would like to ask:

Some of you had tried to play WM in Age of Sigmar?
Did you read the AoS books? I had heard it have scenarios, did they worth? are easy to convert to WM?

I could be interested in building some AoS armies, but the little I had seen is the same but without Histrical aspect of Empire. Know has bring some warriors with the "Scorcery n low tech" aesthtic like the old "He-Man universe", but lizardmen, chaos, skeletons, chaos... are just the same concepts !


In the other hand, some month ago appeared in the market a pc game Total War warhammer with the old world setting. As big fan of Total War serie I remembered how cool is Old world setting


To sum up: AoS in 10mm could be cool or not? what do you think?

[Stormwind]

10mm modern plastics would be amazing - but I would probably rather "convert" them for the Old World setting or something adjacent because every thing I read about AoS as a setting just makes my head hurt.  It's fantasy, there's nothing stopping us from modifying the Old World for our own scenarios.

In the rulebook there is so much lovely writing essentially encouraging you to make up your own maps, armies and Empires, especially for a campaign.  So you don't have to worry about why Araby are fighting Dark Elves or what have you. =-P

[mlkr]

Good thoughts!

I really didnt like the endtimes and I am not that fond of Age of Sigmar. Partl5 because I dont like the fluff but a lot of it also because the miniatures got so big! Huge! 8th edition ruleset did not seem made for mini's of this size and I kinda get the same feeling for todays 40K too. There is just so little space left on the table for manouvers or tactics or anything. AoS is even worse with these huge monsters and warriors.

With that said - I think Epic works great for what 28mm 40K wants to be so I think AoS in 10mm could work really well. Not the 28mm ruleset, but the world and 10mm versions of the miniatures. Maybe some kind of "Herohammer"-version of Warmaster? There would be more room for these huge monsters on the table and you would still be able to maniuver and use tactics.

I dont think I would play a 10mm AoS if it was the same as warmaster just with more monsters like giants and so... But if the ruleset could be tweaked to allow for leaders being still needed for giving commands to troops but also have stats for fighting on their own. That could be pretty cool! Let's call them "Herounits" so you know what I mean...
Edit: These Herounits would be things like the hugeass endtimes Nagash or in the size of a of a 40K-knight. Big stuff, but in the 10mm range.

There would optimally be a lot of risk and reward-gameplay involved in throwing your Herounit into a fight. They would be very powerfull and able to take on several enemy units at once but you would also be running the risk of the Herounit loosing/withdrawing/fleeing/dying and therefore loose a commander for your troops.

Also, I feel that AoS works best as a kind of skirmishgame so if that would be replicated down on a smaller scale... Hmmmm...

I think the tables should have lots of terrain so that tactical placement of troops would be a thing. Maybe create a battlefield that is something like what you find in PC-games like DOTA. In this game you have several "lanes" of attack and the area apart from this is impassable. So a battlefield in WMAoS should maybe have 4 big lanes and some smaller intersecting ones running between them. You could put a few tank-units to guard a lane and try to break through on other lanes of the battlefield. Smaller intersecting "lanes" could be used to sneak past enemies and charge them from behind or get to something more vulnerable.

With this in mind and AoS being more of a skirmish ruleset I would think that basing everything on round bases of different sizes would work pretty well. Weaker units would be on smaller bases so you could fit in more of them on a charge against something. Heavier units would be based on larger bases. It would hopefully balance units against each other in some ways? Herounits would of course be based on the biggest bases so more enemies could possibly surround but thats basically only to give them an actual chance to win or at least wound them

Hmm. I like this idea
At least some of the basic rules from WM could be used to create a ruleset for this...
- Orderphase could still be used prett much as is with commandvalues and everything.
- Movement would possibly need the most work to get right with round bases.
- Shooting seems pretty easy to get working?
- Combat would probably not be too hard to tweak but things would be a bit different for sure.
- Magic, not a problem. Could probably be much more powerfull


I am thinking a game like this would be about 2-3 Herounits commanding (and slaying) loads of troops around the bsttlefield. I would also throw in something similiar to Epic40K's winning conditions. You would get points for controlling positions on the battlefield or killing your opponents most expensive unit and so on.

Is it just me or could this be a pretty fun little game? Please someone build it for me



/Mlkr

[mlkr]

Umm... The thought hit me
Did I just describe Epic40K - The Fantasy Edition?


/Mlkr

[Aquahog]

It'll be a very boring day before I give AoS-fluff a try. That being said, if I was to design a herocentric Warmaster I'd go with the Age of Mythology recipe. Heroes beat monsters beat troops beat heroes.

[jchaos79]

Hmm. I like this idea
At least some of the basic rules from WM could be used to create a ruleset for this...
- Orderphase could still be used prett much as is with commandvalues and everything.
- Movement would possibly need the most work to get right with round bases.
- Shooting seems pretty easy to get working?
- Combat would probably not be too hard to tweak but things would be a bit different for sure.
- Magic, not a problem. Could probably be much more powerfull

Is it just me or could this be a pretty fun little game? Please someone build it for me

/Mlkr

Could  be fun. But is already built it by you in that message. Try it and tell us. My suggestions are:

- Do not go for round base or you will make your miniatures non-compatible.
- If you go for AoS thing use AoS rules as much as you can,
- Order phase/command phase as WM
- Movement as WM (if you use command phase as WM it seems logic that movement go as WM).
- Shooting as WM
- Combat: as WM
- Magic: As WM but more powerfull....

ohh ohh.... I did it again, at last I will play WM again.... I am lost in the game.


Now my real suggestion if you going to use round bases then I really like the AoS solution for the combat. Radius! every base that is 1" from the enemy is fighting. Then there are no problem with the size of bases, shape of bases or even how to charge.
If the unit has big arms (halberdes, pikes) attack in a radius of 2"
If the unit is large monster attack in a radius of 3"
If the unit is an epic/huge monster attack in a radius of 4"

For all the rest Mastercard-... sorry, I mean Warmaster.




@Stormwind & Aquahog, you guys confirm me that the fluff should not be good at all. But, do you know where I could grab some AoS pdf material and take a look?


I had to say that I read the rules a year ago... and though that is rubbish.
But I re-read it this week ... and though... 4 pages, a very easy rules.... that maybe my child could learn in some years... free....   with to hit, to damage to save in a easy way as WM did, with radius and then there are not problem for charges.... They are not rubbish.

[mlkr]

Good suggestions why I was thinking round bases is because AoS killed the rank-and-file from 8th edition instead going more skirmish. So I think round bases for 10mm will better represent AoS gameplay. Especially if they have radius attack. Great idea

This could create tactics of sticking smaller units at the front and bigger units with maybe bigger attackradius behind them. And then you take away casualties from front = Meatshields!

Will look up Age of Mythology


/Mlkr

[David Wasilewski]

I'm just sticking with the Warhammer Old World background for my 10mm fantasy fix!
Nothing wrong with changing it to something else though if you want to though....

Dave

[mlkr]

I certainly prefer old world fluff and aestethics before anything else. GW has even managed to make their orcs (Orruks?) look ugly. I am kinda tempted to try out this Heroic Warmaster/DOTA-idea though... But I can barely find time for my regular hobbystuff so probably not :/


/Mlkr

[Stormwind]

Viz. Age of Sigmar fluff. 

The thing is that they are giving away the rules and lists for free - but you are meant to buy the rulebooks as they are chock full of scenarios and also a story line that does actually move forward.  So I don't think there's much fluff actually available for free online and the wiki looks pretty scarce.

I can definitely see what they're trying to do and I do appreciate that they are trying to draw people in with a story that evolves but I'm afraid it doesn't hugely appeal to me.

[Tiberius]

I have tried to catch up with the AoS fluff on Warseer, but for me it is confusing and weird.  I really loved the fantasy Holy Roman Empire, and as far as I know, no other franchise really does that.  I'm not as crazy about Sigmarines, but I have 15 years history of loving the Empire, so I am little biased.

From what I have read, and understand, it does feel a lot like 40k: Fantasy Edition.  The Space Marines Stormcast Eternals are traveling through space warp gates,  securing planets  realms for The Emperor Sigmar, while the Imperial Guard   Astra Militarum  Free Guild secure the hard won territory.

That's probably a gross over simplification, I don't actually know that much, except that I am not a fan of the models and aesthetic 

I did actually have the idea ages ago, of somehow having "angels" of some sort in the Warhammer World.  Some equally powerful creatures, but good (though the Saurus warriors did come close).  I just didn't have the giant shoulder armor in mind.

Very interesting ideas for bringing AoS to Warmaster though!

[mdivancic]

AoS ripped away everthing I loved from WFB and replaced with something that they could slap a copyright on and call their own. In WFB both my armies are gone (DoW and Tomb Kings). I have no idea what I will play in mased fantasy battles, but is is not AoS.

Warmaster is currently locked in time and I love it. No fantasy space marines. All the old world I loved and plenty of figures one can use to build the armies (my wife's lizardmen army is 100% proxy and looks great). I can still get a game of Warmaster once a month if I show up at the New England gathering.

Yes I'm old and grumpy, but if I pick up something new I want massed combat. Maybe Mantic? I would love a new 10mm game, but not AoS. I've spent 30 years in the Old World and I'm not ready to give it up yet. There is nothing out there like Warmaster. I play it, the historical version and BoFA version.