School me on skaven

[kyussinchains]

I recently got hold of a bunch of skaven and I'm wondering how to use them.... I'm assuming that going for a vast horde is a given, but how big do brigades need to be before they become unwieldy... is there an optimum size?

Looking at the unit choices my thought processes went like this:

Clanrats - wow they are cheap! A bit pants, but you could make a huge bridage which could grind anyone down eventually.... I expect these will be the mainstay of the force... 10 units or so...

Stormvermin - these seem barely any better than clanrats.... I suppose the extra save is nice... I might sprinkle a few of these guys in

Plague monks - unlike slayers and witch elves, these guys can pursue cavalry and hit quite hard... I will take a few units worth for sure

Jezzails - hrm.... they are no better than dwarf handgunners.... they should have longer range and better armour pen... still a couple of units will be useful for drivebacks

Rat swarms - much the same as clanrats.... cheap breakpoint boosters

Gutter Runners - chance to knock out enemy war engines early in the game? Could be handy

Rat ogres - wow these guys are tough!, I'll use some along with plague monks to actually kill stuff

Doomwheel - yes please! I'll max out on these whenever possible

Wlc - don't immediately see the benefit of these...

Screaming bell - this looks potent and as I have one, I'll use it!

I expect I'll need to max out on characters whenever possible thanks to under the lash

Am I miles off? Can any skaven experts share their dirty tricks and help an aspiring grey seer sneak his way to the top of the pile?

[Lex]

Hint #1   do NOT think in terms of Brigade

Hint #2   keep ANY sort of contact between as many units as possibel

[Aquahog]

October 31st 2014 on the Facebook group 'Warmaster GW'.

[kyussinchains]

October 31st 2014 on the Facebook group 'Warmaster GW'.

is there any way to easily find this other than scrolling through hundreds of posts?

[kyussinchains]

never mind, found it

[honestmistake]

Brigades? My opponent tends to lump all 2000 points into 1 blob untill everything is up close and horribly personal   Rat swarms are unbelievably cheap and can deadly just due to their sheer numbers.


Everything being able to pursue makes this a very unpleasant thing to fight, I tend to find that the best option (assuming you cant hit a flank) is to smash into the frontage with as much cavalry force as you can muster and hope to wipe said frontage out and hope the opponent fails their commands to swarm over you. It either works spectacularly of fails miserably

[Lex]

Brigades? My opponent tends to lump all 2000 points into 1 blob untill everything is up close and horribly personal   Rat swarms are unbelievably cheap and can deadly just due to their sheer numbers.

make that one amorphus blob.....   want you want to do is keep stuff in contact, but until you get in range, only expose the swarms, and create "room" behind your frontline to absorb incomming fire AND to force a opponent to spend an Advance after wiping the swarms on first contact

[raia]

Hi, I'm beginner in Skaven horde.

Hints by Lex are helpfull.

One note from me: It is very important to decide how many swarms or clanrats take. Yes they are cheap and the breakpoint are build by them. But you must fight by stronger units if you want to win by points. So take rat swarms, but only few should be on front of your brigades. Others must be kept on back.

[Lex]

One note from me: It is very important to decide how many swarms or clanrats take. Yes they are cheap and the breakpoint are build by them. But you must fight by stronger units if you want to win by points. So take rat swarms, but only few should be on front of your brigades. Others must be kept on back.

Correct.....  you will need swarms in line, or column. or really in ANY legal formation (some of which are properly cheesy  ) to maintain your coherency of the not-a-brigade-brigades

[kyussinchains]

But as your command radius is only 20cm surely that means you'll struggle to get an entire army under the bubble? And if you use multiple commanders to move multiple chunks you can end up breaking the blob into more managable sections?

[Lex]

But as your command radius is only 20cm surely that means you'll struggle to get an entire army under the bubble? And if you use multiple commanders to move multiple chunks you can end up breaking the blob into more managable sections?

yes and no....  remember that "part of a stand of a unit" needs to be in range......  and believe me, you can fit a LOT of units in that radius........

Also, that restriction only counts on giving the order, so your ratsies swarm out to mix and mingle after there move. The first couple of turns this makes all the difference and you generally make just one, or two commands per turn per character.

[kyussinchains]

and how do you avoid being outflanked? nebulous units scattered round the flanks? reserve blob to countercharge the chargers?

what would be a fairly typical sort of build? I'm having a hard time visualising how to use them!

[raia]

You can place whole 2000points army in 20cm command radius and your general should make 2-3 orders with them. It was surprise for me when I tried it and it worked.

But now I usually play one main blob and 2-4 support brigades (yes, max 4unit in it). Main blob has on sides Ratogres. PlagueMonks front column stand is right behind, so they shouldn't make initiative move.

Very important is Screaming bell. Not because of improving of your Ld, but for decreasing of Ld of your foes.

I'm sorry for my poor english.

[Sjapie]

I've also got slaven and I tend not to use the big amorphous blob, but more use a big central brigade including the streaming Bell supported by a nummer of satellite brigades.
Some of these I use to soften up my point of attack before I engage with my main force. Others are used as a reserve in case things go wrong. I find this way of playing much more versatile than the big blob.

 To protect your army I find the gutter runners Invaluable. Eventhough I usually Will have Some in the army, I keep some back to pop up in terrain to make it more difficult for cavalry or other fast units to pass. Either the opponent Will try to pass, but risks failing a command, usually exposing a flank, or the flank attack gets cancelled as he withdraws his fast strike force.

To soften up a target the Death Frenzy spell is quite a nasty surprise. In my last game with slaven versus Jo's witch hufters, I cast it on a rat swarm assaulting defended crossbowmen supported by halberdiers and came out on top. 

[Stormwind]

No need to apologise, Raia, you are perfectly understandable, and that makes sense as a strategy. =)