BFG:R AdMech - confused...

[Yodhrin]

I'm a touch confused - on the afterimagedan blog where you DL the latest BFG:R rules from, there's mention in the "Starting BFG" article that the BFG:R version of AdMech had paid upgrades rather than the moronic random rolling system of the original rules and the 2010 revision, yet when I get the BFG:R pdf it still uses the default rolling mechanics.

Was this a planned feature that never got finished, or was it in a previous version but got removed for some reason?

[Xca|iber]

My understanding is that not everyone was comfortable with Mechanicus fleets just getting to purchase the set of upgrades they want, since you would see a lot of fleets "stacking" only one or two key upgrades. In some ways this is both a mechanics and fluff issue, since on the one hand it helps with game balance but it also helps represent the way no two Mechanicus ships are exactly alike (on account of their Magos' personal quirks).

A compromise was reached wherein the tables were modified such that "weaker" results on the original FAQ 2010 version were improved or replaced, in an attempt to bring parity to the different Mechanicus Gifts. In addition, BFGR changed the upgrade allocation system from a random, per-ship roll to the following:

At the start of the game:
-For each ship that rolled a '6' for its Ld value, pick one gift and add it to your "pool" of gifts.
-For each other ship, roll a D6 on the table and add the result to your "pool" of gifts.
-Assign each gift to a single ship as desired, until every gift in your "pool" has been allocated.

This was BFGR's attempt to fix the issue of wild power swings due to random generation (e.g. getting upgrades on ships that can't make good use of them), while still holding back on letting players go wild with every ship having Augmened Weapon Relays.

I believe it is discussed somewhere in this thread:
http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?topic=4948.0

[Yodhrin]

Hmm, it's not power swings that concern me though; I despise randomness as part of army selection - sure, ingame, go mad, but when I'm building my army I am building my army and I expect to be able to make it just-so, and more than that to be consistent; if Archmagos Theomekhatokos' ship has a specific upgrade, it should always have it whether I'm playing a long campaign or a random pickup game.

Was there a playtest version with the purchasing rules in it, and if yes does anyone have it?

[horizon]

I don't think there have been done real playtest with a purchase system.
Did the Rogue Traders got a purchase system? To lazy to look up...lol

And randomness is what makes the clock tick. Same as writing all tactics in terms of a cruiser clash and then start playing scenarios like escalating engagement where fleet tactics go out of the window.

[Yodhrin]

No the RT one is roll on a table as well. And as I say, I have no problems with randomness in game mechanics(when done well), but I dislike it as part of army selection even where it could be argued it's thematically appropriate(ie Chaos).

*sigh* I suppose I'll just have to try and figure out points costs myself then.

[Xca|iber]

You might be thinking of the FAQ2010 Inquisition list, which has a similar "experimental tech" table which an Ordo Xenos inquisitor can roll on for his ship, or purchase an option for +5 points. (Which is too cheap for what you get, imho, although under those rules it is pretty expensive to field an Inquisitor).

In defense of the AdMech gifts, I think the rules are there to represent something more along the lines of truly "experimental" technology, e.g. "Here's what the Magos was tinkering with this week" rather than any permanent upgrade. They are merely classified as one of six general "upgrade types" for the purpose of letting the game function. Ultimately, it's similar to the way the Armada torpedoes work, where you have to roll for your selection, representing the fact that Vortex/Melta torpedoes are not always available (so the Munitorum gives you something else instead).

Honestly, I do sympathize with your position. I hate excessive randomness at the army-building stage (especially in 40k where it's totally out of control), which is why I've already made some changes to the availability of those aforementioned Armada torpedoes in my (*shameless plug*) BFG:XR project. Now, just for grins, I could take a look at restructuring the Mechanicus Gift options in my AdMech codex, but no guarantees of course... 

[Yodhrin]

You might be thinking of the FAQ2010 Inquisition list, which has a similar "experimental tech" table which an Ordo Xenos inquisitor can roll on for his ship, or purchase an option for +5 points. (Which is too cheap for what you get, imho, although under those rules it is pretty expensive to field an Inquisitor).

In defense of the AdMech gifts, I think the rules are there to represent something more along the lines of truly "experimental" technology, e.g. "Here's what the Magos was tinkering with this week" rather than any permanent upgrade. They are merely classified as one of six general "upgrade types" for the purpose of letting the game function. Ultimately, it's similar to the way the Armada torpedoes work, where you have to roll for your selection, representing the fact that Vortex/Melta torpedoes are not always available (so the Munitorum gives you something else instead).

Honestly, I do sympathize with your position. I hate excessive randomness at the army-building stage (especially in 40k where it's totally out of control), which is why I've already made some changes to the availability of those aforementioned Armada torpedoes in my (*shameless plug*) BFG:XR project. Now, just for grins, I could take a look at restructuring the Mechanicus Gift options in my AdMech codex, but no guarantees of course... 

Looking at your thread, you seem to be a person after my own heart(I spend a silly amount of time doing rulebook-style PDFs for my homebrew Mordheim warbands) 

If you do get around to it, I'd be interested to see what you come up with.

[horizon]

If you do get around to it, I'd be interested to see what you come up with.

Here is Xca|iber's work:
http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?topic=7869.0