Author Topic: Newtonian Movement for BFG (Read 3792 times)

renegade · « **on:** November 04, 2009, 08:27:46 PM »

Hi, I'm new to this forum, and I've search the archives and can't find a topic discussing newtonian movement in BFG, so I thought I address the issue here. Sorry if this has already been discussed. Please feel free to direct me to a previous discussion if this is redundant.

I've been thinking about a few tweaks to the rules to allow for a slightly more "realistic" motion sim for BFG, without being too cumbersome to employ. In order to introduce a bit of newtonian movement to the rules, players record each ship's (or squadron's) rate of movement each turn. During the next turn, a ship's movement ability is affected as follows:

1) Ships may always move up to the ship's maximum rate regardless of the prior turn's rate.
2) Ships may always move at half maximum rate without special orders.
3) Ships may always move at the prior turn's rate without special orders.
4) If the ship's prior turn movement rate is less than half maximum, it must use Burn Retros to slow the rate further.
5) If the ship's prior turn movement rate is greater than the ship's maximum rate, it must use All Ahead Full to accellerate further.
6) The fastest any ship may move is its maximum rate plus 24cm.
7) The slowest any ship may move is zero cm.

These changes will allow a more realistic motion sim without severely altering the mechanics of the game in my opinion.

Carrington · « **Reply #1 on:** November 04, 2009, 09:49:35 PM »

Quote from: renegade on November 04, 2009, 08:27:46 PM

Hi, I'm new to this forum, and I've search the archives and can't find a topic discussing newtonian movement in BFG, so I thought I address the issue here. Sorry if this has already been discussed. Please feel free to direct me to a previous discussion if this is redundant.

I've been thinking about a few tweaks to the rules to allow for a slightly more "realistic" motion sim for BFG, without being too cumbersome to employ. In order to introduce a bit of newtonian movement to the rules, players record each ship's (or squadron's) rate of movement each turn. During the next turn, a ship's movement ability is affected as follows:

1) Ships may always move up to the ship's maximum rate regardless of the prior turn's rate.
2) Ships may always move at half maximum rate without special orders.
3) Ships may always move at the prior turn's rate without special orders.
4) If the ship's prior turn movement rate is less than half maximum, it must use Burn Retros to slow the rate further.
5) If the ship's prior turn movement rate is greater than the ship's maximum rate, it must use All Ahead Full to accellerate further.
6) The fastest any ship may move is its maximum rate plus 24cm.
7) The slowest any ship may move is zero cm.

These changes will allow a more realistic motion sim without severely altering the mechanics of the game in my opinion.

Take a look at DRM's Hostile Stars development: they're working on Newtonian movement systems.

RayB HA · « **Reply #2 on:** November 06, 2009, 12:14:05 AM »

Hi Renegade,

The aspect that would be greatly affected by newtonian motion would be turning. e.g. being able to turn but remain at the same heading, so you could go broadside forwards on lock-on. I realise this is not what you're suggesting, but it would be odd not to include if you want to go down this road.

If anything like this were to be implemented it would be a completely different game! In fact there are games out there that do work under these principles like 'full thrust'.

Assuming your flying bases aren't glued to your ships you could draw/paint a heading marker on the base. And then expend speed to turn (with the usual maximums), it would sadly make sense to take the previous movements speed into account when calculating the amount of potential speed expended to turn. i.e. 1/4 of the previous movement to change your heading by 45*.

Have fun with that!

RayB HA

horizon · « **Reply #3 on:** November 06, 2009, 04:32:17 AM »

Hostile indeed works with Inertia. Beside the flying backwards-pointing forward part it seems to work really well.

renegade · « **Reply #4 on:** November 08, 2009, 02:00:08 PM »

Yes, I realize that true newtonian motion would allow for moving forward broadside, etc, but I didn't want to change the game too much, which would bring on too many balance issues. I can come up with reasons why true newtonian motion would be difficult to mange/maintain with such huge ships-- namely the "logic machines" available to the Imperium might be inadequate for the task, or that side thrusters are too weak, etc. The very existence of maximum velocity in space is a problem as well, but I can imagine that the speeds are "relative" and reflective of the manuverability and responsiveness of the various ships to changes in velocity.

So I just wanted to add a bit more "reality" to the existing movement model. I just can't understand that a ship that has burned retros one turn and has stopped, would be forced to accellerate the next turn for any reason-- the ship essentially becomes a static defence when it has stopped and should be able to fire weapons without restriction. Likewise a ship that has accellerated to "full speed" shouldn't be forced to slow down for the same reasons.

RayB HA · « **Reply #5 on:** November 10, 2009, 02:42:38 AM »

Hmm...

If it were just a special order related addition I could see it working as follows:
You may remain on AAF or Burn Retros for as many turns as you wish after the passed command check, deciding whether to continue the order at the start of the owning players turn.

Exploiting the full firepower in a turn after the command check is a little iffy, but I can see it as balanced for the most part. The obvious exeptions here being Orks, Nids, Necrons and the Chaos Slaughter!

I would only go with the continuing those special orders without a command check, nothing more.

Cheers,

RayB HA

renegade · « **Reply #6 on:** November 12, 2009, 10:49:38 PM »

Well, that doesn't exactly fix the "reality" issue which prompted the proposed change in the first place. Forcing a ship to remain on Burn Retros special orders after it has already stopped doesn't make sense. The ship has come to a halt. It is treated as defenses-- that should be enough of a disadvantage, IMO. The increased speed from a post-AAF turn may be a bit too good, however. Maybe retaining halved firepower/strength would be okay, since the ship would be moving faster relative to the battlefield and its targeting systems may not be as accurate, but shouldn't have any other detriment for being on special orders, since it really isn't accellerating anymore.