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Author Topic: ASC 2.0 Space Marines  (Read 8229 times)

Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

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Re: ASC 2.0 Space Marines
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2013, 10:33:38 PM »
Sorry nothing new.  Traveling right now.  Will have the rest of these up by the end of the week hopefully
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Offline Bessemer

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Re: ASC 2.0 Space Marines
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2013, 11:05:11 PM »
The Cyrabdis's batteries do look a little under-powered, but they do scale when compared to the SMBB. Reduce to 30cm, fpw10/12?

Relentless as substitute for Chyrabdis?

All other ships look OK to me, VBB's are supposed to be a divergence from normal Imperium designs.
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Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

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Re: ASC 2.0 Space Marines
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2013, 02:28:49 PM »
So actually I am done with SM ships other than the Phalanx. Though, does anyone think there should be specific rules for the phalanx. I have never actually seen a converted phalanx and the only image to suggest what it is is the cover of the Soul Drinker book Phalanx, where it just looks like a Ramilies Star Fort.

So anyone have any thoughts? Choices I see, without further info, are:
1- We collectively come up with something
2- We make is a modified Ramilies
3- We don't bother with it
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Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

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Re: ASC 2.0 Space Marines
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2013, 02:27:10 AM »
So actually I am done with SM ships other than the Phalanx. Though, does anyone think there should be specific rules for the phalanx. I have never actually seen a converted phalanx and the only image to suggest what it is is the cover of the Soul Drinker book Phalanx, where it just looks like a Ramilies Star Fort.

So anyone have any thoughts? Choices I see, without further info, are:
1- We collectively come up with something
2- We make is a modified Ramilies
3- We don't bother with it

I'm lazy and going with number 3 for now
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Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: ASC 2.0 Space Marines
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2013, 02:03:06 PM »
Easiest is to allow it to be represented by the marine star fort.
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Offline Talos

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Re: ASC 2.0 Space Marines
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2013, 02:27:26 PM »
@AndrewChristlieb Or even better we can have it be a super star fort with a new class name, and have it and the Rapturous Rex share that same statline.


Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

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Re: ASC 2.0 Space Marines
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2013, 03:18:52 PM »
@AndrewChristlieb Or even better we can have it be a super star fort with a new class name, and have it and the Rapturous Rex share that same statline.

For now we can't touch the raptorus rex, as IA books are off limits since they are not in the public domain like the rest of the BFG books/resources.

I pestered FW about it for a while. They hinted that maybe one day they would be available.

The FW Tau rules are a go though, since they put the originals out there for download.
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Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

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Re: ASC 2.0 Space Marines
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2013, 07:33:48 PM »
So a few ideas since the vote failed
1- rename the ragnarok class something like "primarch" class bb
2- put in a pre heresy "crusade pattern" sm sc. Basically Lighter Armour and longer ranged guns. Use this for chaos as well and the basis for character ships like the night hag.
3-gloriana class bb based off the vengeful spirit.
4-actually put effort into/design the phalanx
5- rename the charybdis something like "implacable"
6- rename tge retribution either: voidfang, nidhoggur or holmgang.

Any one know of other heresy era ship classes? That seems the best route to add vessels
« Last Edit: July 13, 2013, 07:41:50 PM by Gothmog Lord of Balrogs »
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Offline Armiger84

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Re: ASC 2.0 Space Marines
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2013, 09:11:05 PM »
1, 5 & 6 - Agreed; I'm generally agreeing with Vaaish that ASC2.0 should focus primarily on including alternate ship templates, and worry about bringing in special snowflake ships once those are in place.

2 - sounds like a plan.  To cover variations in ship styles, it might be worth it to include similar swap-around options like the existing marine strike cruisers possess.  I'm not entirely sure it needs to, by default, be a lighter-armored cruiser.  My suspicion is that generally they used whatever they got their hands on and I could easily see a wide range of variety in fleet and ship design (for example, I could easily see Iron Warriors or Death Guard fielding a "modern" marine SC with upgrades for extra prow bombardment cannon and port/stbd hangars as a bombardment ship alongside more traditional vessels.

Part of the difficulty lies in determining what they used and how.  The general impression I have about Crusade-era fleets is that the Imperium fielded massive fleets of mass-produced warships, ranging across a number of standardized templates to match requirements from straight-up line dueling vessels to specialized planetary assault ships.  Equally, my impression is that the Legions really didn't specialize in their ship selections but fielded broad-spectrum fleets containing all such examples, just having standing detachments of Legion crew and/or deployable infantry forces aboard.

3 - would this be "Vengeful Spirit - as - minimally - modified - Despoiler" or Vengeful Spirit as something else entirely (something slightly bigger than a standard battleship but not quite a huge dreadnought design, perhaps a 14-hit Planet-Killer scaled ship)?

4 - Eh, leave the Phalanx out of it, much like IMO we ought to leave the Abyss-class ships out of it (personally, I'm quite happy using the Chaos Space Hulk rules to represent a modern-day Abyss after years of wear and tear).  We're talking about stuff that scales along the size & weight of fire of a Space Hulk, capable of internally docking frigates and destroyers.  Might as well institute rules for Craftworlds.

Thought - would people want to make the Battlefleet Koronus "Hellbringer" class light cruiser the "Heresy-era Strike Cruiser" template?  It appears (at least to me) from its RPG entry that Andy Chambers and/or the rest of the design team were essentially aiming for that...
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Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

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Re: ASC 2.0 Space Marines
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2013, 09:36:19 PM »
I guess the vengeful spirit as a despoiler. Since all those named chaos ships are Gloriana class, I need to stick close to their design. Ill figure out a way to change it up.

I think I have the hellbringer on the main asc list. I have to go back and check what it is like.

As for crusade era classes I have seen a compiled list from the books before elsewhere online I just can't find it now.

As for what should be in ASC 2.0 I am of the opinion that as many ships as we can support with the background or fluff. Obviously general templates are great and I heavily favour them, but character ships are just as viable imo, including dreadnoughts. Since these are unnoficial and we dont have to worry so much about overall game or fleet balance with them (that us left up to the players when they decide to use them or not) then I say why not go for it.
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Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

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Re: ASC 2.0 Space Marines
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2013, 09:39:12 PM »
plfrigatek't think the abyss class is big enough to internally dock frigates
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Offline Armiger84

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Re: ASC 2.0 Space Marines
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2013, 11:24:49 PM »
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "don't include character ships," it's more that I'm suggesting you/we try using character ships that could be representative of a class or somewhat more standardized hull pattern to generate a more broadly accessible hull that could be used outside of a single fleet list for people who don't want to play just one particular fleet list.

To offer a rather lengthy set of examples to illustrate:

We have the Mars-class battlecruiser hull, of which the Imperious was refitted with a salvaged targeting matrix improving its accuracy (optional upgrade).  The Divine Right was Lord Ravensburg's command ship throughout the Gothic War, and even gets a 2-page art spread in the BFG rulebook, but despite being retrofitted after extraction from a space hulk, generally fits the template for an Emperor-class battleship despite being probably a relatively unique example of the class.  The Vae Victus has been through hell, literally, lost in a warp storm, originally came with prow launch bays (later replaced with torpedo tubes), has been mothballed and reconditioned half a dozen times, had an auxiliary engine room built on after her primary drives were wrecked, and we now use her as the standard example of an entire class of battleship despite her unique history.

For that matter, the original list entries for Battle Barges and Strike Cruisers repeatedly stressed that these were not strict ship templates but meant as catch-alls for a variety of custom-built and "after-market" modifications and repurposings of existing BBs by the Adeptus Astartes over the millennia, generally resulting in up-armored warships with a relatively common set of weapons load-outs tailored to the modern Astartes' specific tactical needs.  I guess the suggestion there is that there are probably as many examples of Emperors, Oberons, Desecrators & Glorianas with extra grafted-on armor and rebuilt/reconditioned gun-decks as there are purpose-built codex-standard (i.e., BFG miniature-standard) battle barges floating around out there, and they're all considered battle barges with a relatively abstracted unified weapons set.

I guess what I'm getting at is, the Retribution could simply be a "Famous Ships" entry for the Battle Barge, and we could easily turn stuff like the Ragnarok into an "ancient, mostly-abandoned battle barge variant (grand cruiser hull)" and then use the Ragnarok, belonging to the Space Wolves, as a "Famous Ships" example to illustrate the class.  That gets us inclusive templates that more people can use, while giving the Space Wolves their special snowflake (possibly with another sub-class defining "for +__ pts, replace X with Y, or upgrade A to B" option), instead of just getting us a one-off ship entry.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2013, 11:27:53 PM by Armiger84 »
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Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

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Re: ASC 2.0 Space Marines
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2013, 03:35:58 AM »
Makes sense. I will say the ragnarok class was not sw only.  I just stole the name. Makes more sense as a "famous" ship though anyways.
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