anyone have any luck using daemon ships?

[horizon]

Eh, Sig means MSM where he says MMS.

@ Unseelieed:
Necrons: while the vps table is crappy I never seen them as overpowered but structurly bad designed due the dependance on said vps table.

Orks: original/armada Orks are created wrong in the fact that an all Terror Kroozer fleet is a top-notch fleet (see Adepticon:Deadshane).
FAQ2010: a good list with good power albeit confusingly and clunky written in terms of fleet selection.


//
Battlefleet Gothic. Why keep Gothic? It sounds cool though.

Battlefleet : Rise of the FanRules
Battlefleet: Galaxy

[Sigoroth]

Eh, Sig means MSM where he says MMS.

Yeah, I had MSM in my head, my fingers just didn't type it.

[unseelied]

Apparently there is an Eldar Yoda.  Mastered them from the very first game.  Lost one game out of at least forty.  Either you are a prodigy or your competition is very bad.  You do see that your experiences are not the norm?  If you are indeed the eldar master we shouldn't change rules to suit you.  If you are burdened with horrible opponents we shouldn't change the rules for them either.  Its the middle of the bell curve that counts and down here amongst the average BFG player the MSM rules work fine.   MMS may very well be an awsome system but since no one plays it around here, and will never play it, I am going to give it a pass. 

@Horizon- I do have an Ork fleet and I do field it but its an uphill battle.  Sometimes it can win, sure, but I'd have to say if I had to rate the fleets before the 2010 update according to their power I'd put them dead last.  I haven't really messed with the 2010 FAQ Ork list enough to really grasp them so I can't comment but hopefully there are some gems in there that I missed.

As to the Necrons I find them to be too random if that makes any sense.  Sometimes they roll ones like there is no tommorrow and they are fine.  Sometime, though, they will just not roll any ones no matter how much fire you throw into them and then they are just unstoppable.   Also I find the tombship to be a little bit much.  Cruisers are fine and the escorts are actually on the weak side but that tombship is just over the top.

You have a point about the Gothic.  A fresh start.  Battlefleet something else. There are plenty of areas of space that have battlefleets.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Battlefleet 40,000 would tie it back to the core game.

[Khar]

It might turn GW's eyes looking for any copyright infrigements towards us, though. Let's call it Grimdark Armada

[horizon]

Hi Unseelieed,
Deadshane won Adepticon once with an blue book Ork fleet (pre FAQ), got second twice (iirc///with being best admiral as an award as well). I do not rate that as a bad fleet.

Sigoroth's track record with msm Eldar is really good, yes. But the rules of MMS are not suited to him, yes he is the original creator, the rules are written for people who are fed up with the original rules (be it because they do not like them fluffwise, or because they are to strong/bad, break a rule mechanic, etc).
But if players keep using official rules and do not have issues that's fine.

///

Back to official daemonships:
crap.

Solution within official realm: does not exist.

Solution outside official realm: BFG:R daemonship rules.

[unseelied]

These are all interesting topics you bring up.  I will start another thread about the ork fleet thing as I am curious about what people are bringing.  Just because I haven't found the killer Ork list doesn't mean there isn't one. 

Also I ran a tweaked daemon ship list last night and it did OK.  I think I cheated though, now that I look at the rules again.  I will post the question up in the question section.  It seems a little grey to me but I sometime tend to see certain rules  the way I want it to be rather than how other might see them.  I think that having the forum is a valuable asset, in that respect, as it tells me things about the rules I deep down already know but don't want to. 

[Sigoroth]

Apparently there is an Eldar Yoda.  Mastered them from the very first game.  Lost one game out of at least forty.  Either you are a prodigy or your competition is very bad.  You do see that your experiences are not the norm?  If you are indeed the eldar master we shouldn't change rules to suit you.  If you are burdened with horrible opponents we shouldn't change the rules for them either.  Its the middle of the bell curve that counts and down here amongst the average BFG player the MSM rules work fine.   MMS may very well be an awsome system but since no one plays it around here, and will never play it, I am going to give it a pass. 

I do not consider myself a "Yoda" at Eldar. My game group are quite competitive and they all saw the same things with Eldar that I did. Had I been the Imperial or Chaos player and one of my friends the Eldar player the story would have run the same. When I created the first set of MMS rules the Eldar were exceptionally overpowered. The first test game I annihilated my foe with consummate ease. They (he and my other opponent looking on) were happier with that game than they had been in any of my many MSM games. When asked why the response was "because I could actually shoot at you". MSM Eldar are not fun.

As to the Necrons I find them to be too random if that makes any sense.  Sometimes they roll ones like there is no tommorrow and they are fine.  Sometime, though, they will just not roll any ones no matter how much fire you throw into them and then they are just unstoppable.   Also I find the tombship to be a little bit much.  Cruisers are fine and the escorts are actually on the weak side but that tombship is just over the top.

Yes, I quite agree. I have found Necrons to be quite confounding. I have won against them once with a pure gunnery Chaos fleet, but all other experiences I have lost, both against them and with them. In one case I lost against them due to splitting my fleet. In another case I lost with them due to them becoming too spread out (stray AAFs on some ships combined with bracing on others). However, in all games, including the two mentioned, the sheer randomness of the Necrons played a large factor. I seem constitutionally incapable of choosing the right time to brace with them and likewise incapable of delivering that much needed coup de grace in the face of a wall of successful saves.