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Author Topic: Hellfire cruiser stats?  (Read 3114 times)

Offline Islacrusez

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Hellfire cruiser stats?
« on: July 18, 2013, 08:56:06 PM »
Anyone have stats for the Hellfire? Ex-mechanicum chaos cruisers, apparently with lances made of derp because they traded in the void shields.
Quite crucial to be able to tell minefields and rally points apart...

Offline horizon

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Re: Hellfire cruiser stats?
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2013, 09:41:52 PM »
http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?topic=5203.0

Above.
The old ship compendium (yelowyang link) has the hellfire.

But iirc the Inferno from FAQ2010 is the updated version for the hellfire.

Offline Islacrusez

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Re: Hellfire cruiser stats?
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2013, 09:58:22 PM »
Got it, thanks!

Huh. Both of those... kinda suck.
Quite crucial to be able to tell minefields and rally points apart...

Offline Lord Duggie The Mad

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Re: Hellfire cruiser stats?
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2013, 04:12:58 AM »
The Hellfire is kind of rubbish isn't it :-\  If it were me, I'd probably be looking at a bog-standard Hades or perhaps an Acheron class heavy cruiser.  A single shield on a 285 point ship is too much of a risk for me to suffer.

Pity really, the sketch of the ship looks badass ;D.
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Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: Hellfire cruiser stats?
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2013, 05:04:08 AM »
Hellfire is pretty bad. The Inferno isn't bad its poor when compared to the Carnage, but then so are most ships! It is an improvement over the Murder though and the Murder is good for its price.
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Offline Islacrusez

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Re: Hellfire cruiser stats?
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2013, 11:08:27 AM »
I just thought it would be some sort of lance-sniper; but no, it's just a slaughter with slightly longer range weapons but slower movement and one less shield. In my books, that comes out to "a slaughter, just not as good"...


Out of curiosity, is 415 too much for a custom chaos battleship?
Quite crucial to be able to tell minefields and rally points apart...

Offline Islacrusez

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Re: Hellfire cruiser stats?
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2013, 04:54:01 PM »
Ok, so I love the look of the hellfire - it's two cruiser prows glued back to back and four gun battery slots. I want one. I don't want the stats that come with it, because let's face it... It really isn't all that good.

So, here's the originals:

Hellfire-class Heavy Cruiser, 285 Points
Hits: 8 (8*5=40)
Speed: 20cm (20/5=4)
Turns: 45º
Shields: 1 (1*10=10)
Armour: 5+ (10)
Turrets: 2 (2*5=10)
(Hull total: 74)


Firepower:

Port Weapons Battery, 45cm, 8, Left (8*3=24)
S'board Weapons Battery, 45 cm, 8, Right (8*3=24)
Port Lance Battery, 45cm, 2, Left (2*11=22)
S'board Lance Battery, 45cm, 2, Right (2*11=22)
Prow Weapons Battery, 30cm, 6, Left/Fwd/Right (6*1.5=9)
Dorsal Lance Battery, 60cm, 1, Left/Fwd/Right (1*13=13)

(Weapons Total: 114)
Smotherman Ship Cost: 188
Actual Ship Cost: 285

Is my maths wrong somewhere, or is this heap of scrap a little overpriced? Even with the reduced price due to slow speed and low shields, she's a little light for a heavy cruiser... In fact it's more or less the Emasculator class cruiser in armament, plus the dorsal lance, two points on the broadside batteries, a point off speed and a point off shields.

In fact let's have a look at that.  Emasculator: 185 points. Add dorsal lance +13, add 4*45 battery strength +12, minus 1 shield -10, minus 5 speed -1. Net change: +14. Total: 199. Seeing as the Hellfire can't fire lances when AAF, that sounds about right. So what's going on here?

I say that 188 is low for a heavy cruiser, seeing as chaos cruisers cost that much on average. So we up the armament?

All the lances go to 60 +8 points.
Increase Lance Broadside strength to 4 (can be modelled by using all four slots per side with the combined battery insert, or using two with the chaos base slots), +52 points if 60cm (yes.)

So that brings us to 248. Considering the power sharing fluff and the inherent penalties, we should aim for higher than the point score, and bring it down with the penalties.

So add 1 point of shields for +10
Add 2 points of speed for +2
260.

Humm. Let's add 1 point to the dorsal lance: +13
Add 2 points each to the broadsides 4*3, +12

285.

Now we're getting somewhere, but in theory it's a bit low, because now we slap on a special:

Shared Power Relays:

Before moving the ship or engaging in any special orders with it choose 2 of the following to keep at 100%, halve the other: Lance Strength, Speed, Shield Value.

Speed must be chosen when using AAF, and lances may not be fired at all.
BFI halves values again as normal (Shield Min: 1)


Alternatively:

Shields: 1
Speed: 30
Halve lance strength when moving over 20cm, halve again for BFI, cannot fire lances at all on AAF.

Price: Keep at 285, or drop to ~250.

Thoughts?
Quite crucial to be able to tell minefields and rally points apart...

Offline Islacrusez

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Re: Hellfire cruiser stats?
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2013, 01:08:50 AM »
Actually, a thought - since it's an ex-admech ship...

Using the amended stats but:

Chaos: Choose 1 power system to be at 100%, the other two are 50%
Imperial / Ad Mech: Choose 2 power systems to be at 100%, the remaining at 50%
(Shields, Movement Speed, Lances)

AAF and BR still draining all lances.


And yes, I know the Smotherman formula isn't the be-all and end-all for ship points, but being out by 100?
Quite crucial to be able to tell minefields and rally points apart...

Offline Evil Mic

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Re: Hellfire cruiser stats?
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2013, 10:30:33 PM »
I don't know much about the Hellfire,...
but the Inferno isn't bad at all!

He has a little bit of everything!
Compared with the Carnage you get fewer Weapons (6) but 2 lances. So that is ~equal. But especially against some Fleets (SMs Necrons, or also Imp) its better to have lances.

Compared with the Murder it's a little bit more expensive. But for that you get a stronger broadside.