First game in a while

[Vaaish]

With grad school all finished I finally have time to get some games in. Decided to go for something a tad different and pretty evil but it was mainly just to see lots of stuff blow up. the game was IN vs faq2010 marines.

IN
6x dauntless, lance
3x endurance
6x sword
6x firestorm
Admiral
1490

Marines
3x sc with extra shield
2x sc with extra shield and bombardment cannon upgrade
5x gladius
Vbb retribution BB
Honor guard to fill the cracks
1500

This was the first game we've played with the most of the new 50cm diameter planet. We ended up doing a fleet engagement, wedge vs cross. Managed to get the fleet combined and got first blood knocking two hits of of one of the bc sc. Most retaliation was directed against the firestorms and I lost two after bracing and saving all 5 hits (My friend has difficulty with 4+ rolls) after that he mis calculated the time it would take to traverse the planet which gave me time to lock on and cripple the second bcsc and nuke a couple of escorts. Retaliation cost me two dauntless and a crippled endurance since I didn't bother bracing. He ended the turn still moving over the planet. I managed to lock on again with two squadrons before I failed a check and reroll on a dauntless squadron. The combined firepower of 13 locked on lance was two more dead sc.

We called tha game after that. I'd expected that the game would be more bloody and I expect that the rematch will be. My buddy got caught over the planet which cost him all his ordnance capability and let me concentrate firepower. If he'd stayed off the planet and played the ordnance game my fleet would have been far worse off. He had ideal positioning for the bc too, s16 within 15cm of my closing dauntless squadrons. No  lock on, but still I think the shots would would have been better spent on the dauntless squadron than on the firestorms.

It was really a rough in list to face. I typically lean toward the vengeance and emperor so I typically only have 7 ships or so on the board. I was rather surprised a how much I was able to fit in there and being able to play a bit more loose since one or two losses didnt really have much effect. An interesting and different game for us.
 

[Talos]

Nice game, and I was surprised at your list as well. IIRC you are the Vaaish who pioneered the unorthodox gunline, being an emperor battleships, a pair of vengeance grand cruisers, two torpedo dauntlesses and a partridge in a pear tree? Another weird fleet.

I am also surprised you ran no AC, but I suppose you had a few torpedoes and lots of escorts, so that's something. My usual opponent plays tau and eldar so I wouldn't leave home without them.

Otherwise good game and well played! Keep us posted on the rematch.

[Vaaish]

Yep. That would be me, I usually run two Lunars with nc. They perform better than a partridge in a pear tree.
I did think about running my regular fleet, but I've played that one so much that most times it isn't nearly so enjoyable. I didn't really want to do a standard fleet either and I've enough dauntless to run this without serious proxying. I'd always wanted to try something like this so I thought what the heck lets see if i can put out enough ships that it just doesnt matter if i have no ordnance. I guess I just run extremes when it comes to fleets.

I doubt I'd have been nearly so successful if the ordnance game had happened but with most of his ordnance capable ships on the plate for much of the game the balance of power really tilted in my favor.

[AndrewChristlieb]

I bet tweaking this to a Bakka list with a focus on Endeavour/ Endurance would work really well without attack craft.

[Vaaish]

It's not quite the same concept using bakka though. Part of the draw of the dauntless is either the s6 torpedoes or the s3 lances combined with the 25cm escort speed and 90` turns. Going Bakka nets me 3x turrets on all my ships but also costs me all the firestorms, drops my overall fleet speed to 20cm and I also lose the bonus dice for AAF. Despite taking cheaper swords, I still come in with one less escort than with the list I used.

With all light cruisers too, a crippled dauntless is still useful while a crippled endurance chugs along like a battleship and drops to one lance. Not so useful when you expect to have a good number of ships crippled and you still need enough mass to hit hard enough to shift the balance. I can arrange three dauntless so unless I take heavy fire and one drops in a round of shooting I'll likely still end with 7 lances out of my original nine if two ships get crippled. With the endurance, I only have 6 lances to start and 4 if I have two ships crippled.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Ah I see, you could of course bring a couple Bakka Endurances in as reserves also, it would boost your ordinance defense with no loss, actually you could do two of your three with the extra points. Dont forget the Bakka Endurances can run with 4x turrets @120 pts O_o, with the high number of escorts to mass turrets with and the 90* turns you should be able to sweep attack craft with ease.

[Vaaish]

I guess I could pull some reserves in, it does burn the last 10 points but that's about it. I couldn't justify anything else, it doesn't make sense because I've yet to meet an opponent that targets my best defended ships with ordnance. So unless everything else has the extra turrets the slower endurance will just get ignored for easier targets. It still dies just as easily to gunfire

[horizon]

Aside of the fact you had no carrier it was a pretty evil anti-Marine list. A focus on lances (instead of your usual torp variant).

And yes, he should've taken down the Dauntless at that point.
What where his T-Hawks doing? They should've focused on your escorts. And he missed the carrier capability of a normal Barge to fully dominate the ordnance phase.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Ive never played anyone that targets my higher turret value ships with ordinance either, I attack their ordinance with my higher turret value ships . Unless they want to start dancing their ordinance around and waste more time (and the chance to launch more ordinance) it usually works pretty well. Thats also where a lot of the appeal for the Bakka light cruisers comes in, carrying a boat load of turrets with the 90* turns makes them killer for hunting AC. With a focus on lance Daunts over the torps I cant imagine you were breaking out the AAF nearly as much either which should allow the fleet to stay clumped and give those Endurances plenty of oppertunity to jump on any ordinance that is sent towards any of the ships.

[Vaaish]

Horizon: yes it was... and he never got to launch ordnance. He got stuck traversing the planet for several turns which is where the fleets met. since we both usually have a decent amount of ordnance that gets neutralized for the first couple of turns he held off launching.

Andrew: I just don't see that working at all. Ordnance is far faster than the endurance and that makes them easy to dodge unless its just torps. You get 20cm movement and you have to move 10cm before turning. So if the incoming ordnance isn't coming at your front arc, your effective intercept distance is 10cm. Front arc, you get a 20cm intercept distance give or take if you have to adjust heading.  The guys I play with would happily hold off till their ordnance phase to pick their targets rather than let the endurance catch them. It just means they need to end their ordnance phase with the ordnance 21cm out, then use your ordnance phase to dodge the endurance and likely attack in their next ordnance phase.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Odd, that works fine for me with full cruisers so I would think the light cruisers would be even better. I dont know anyone that doesnt send their ordinance straight at the enemy (barring cap) and I think its pretty safe to say that no one I play with would hold back and wait for their turn to attack. I guess thats just a sign of different play styles fostering different tactics tho. 

[Vaaish]

I guess so Ordnance in our games is a whole game of chess with jockeying for the most advantageous position. I can't even remember all the times I've had what I thought was a good intercept position only to have my opponent jet off at a right angle to skirt my fighters leaving me to catch  up after he'd moved in his own turn. I've had to fighters to get screens up when that's happened before. If I fielded 6x cruisers with 1 turret and two with 3 I guarantee you it would be an exercise in frustration to use the higher turrets as ordnance interceptors. I'd have more reliability intercepting by just shooting at them!

[AndrewChristlieb]

Thats a bit depressing really :/ I would love the chance to play against someone who actually had a bit of forethought with their movements and didnt just throw everything in willy-nilly.