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Author Topic: How to Seperate Shields from Armor?  (Read 9033 times)

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: How to Seperate Shields from Armor?
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2011, 08:35:07 PM »
You're absolutely right Horizon, but this discussion IS for people who are interested in thinking about that, as I think we all realize its a big change to the core rules :)

Offline Lex

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Re: How to Seperate Shields from Armor?
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2011, 11:13:48 PM »
andalways better to have a good discussion BEFORE....  and focus on one or two suggestions to work out and test through

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: How to Seperate Shields from Armor?
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2011, 11:51:12 PM »
Well, if we go with shields saving hits, we don't have to recost it. Adding more shields might be the way to go instead. Shields normally saving on a 5+ with BFI improving it to 4+, then add more shields to ships (+1 to every ship?).

Offline lastspartacus

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Re: How to Seperate Shields from Armor?
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2011, 05:56:41 PM »
So if you save, you lose a shield, if you don't it goes straight to hull damage?

Offline Admiral_d_Artagnan

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Re: How to Seperate Shields from Armor?
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2011, 09:47:13 AM »
Yup.

Offline horizon

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Re: How to Seperate Shields from Armor?
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2011, 01:03:02 PM »
Admiral, what happens in this example. Cruiser, 5+ armour, with (+1) 3 shields is being shot at.
Opponent rolls 3 dice: 3,5,5.

Thus 2 hits.

Defender rolls 3 dice (non bfi, 5+ to save):
rolls: 4, 4, 5

Means 2 blastmarkers (4's) and one hit on armour?

BFI would have saved all, but 3 blastmarkers. Next round of fire no save, no shields, no roll for BFI. (?).

This system leads to more explosions, ships going down a lot faster.

Currently a roll of 5 5 to hit/damage vs a Murder is 2 hits vs shields.
This system, 5 5 to hit followed by 3 shield save (roll 3,3,3) means 2 hits to hull.

Quite the difference.

This system

Offline Thinking Stone

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Re: How to Seperate Shields from Armor?
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2011, 05:44:20 AM »
Hello everyone,
I recall a similar system in the game 'Full Thrust' (you can find rules on the ][nternet, but I have the documents also). This game tries to make a more realistic simulation of space combat, based on what we know today. I shall have to post more on realism in BFG (studying biophysics and physics, I find this an interesting area; BFG isn't really so bad in terms of realism, with the premises of the WH40K universe) at some other point, but in Full Thrust shields work as a 'screen' of sorts.

With Full Thrust, battery strengths are represented by how many dice they roll, and armour is represented by the number of hull points you have; weapons roll a fixed number to damage ships and the resilience of the ship is entirely accounted for by hitpoints. For each class of batteries, a different number of dice are rolled at each range, and each class has a different maximum range. E.g. Class A batteries, the most powerful, have a max range of 36", roll 3 dice from 0-12", roll 2 at 12-24" and roll one at 24-36". On 'unscreened' = unshielded ships, each roll can cause: no effect for a 1-3; 1 damage point for 4-5; and 2 damage points for a 6. Screens have the following effects: Level-1, ignore rolls of 4 that hit; Level-2, rolls of 5 and 6 only cause 1 damage point; and Level-3, only rolls of 6 cause damage, at one point per 6 rolled. Screens are not considered mandatory and escorts generally don't mount them at all! Cruisers have Level-1 and Capital ships (the biggies in Full Thrust, their classification system is a little different to BFG) have Level-2 or 3 depending on their mass. They also have an interesting critical hit mechanism (I will provide details if anyone's interested).

Some of these other ideas remind me of the Necron shielding system in BFG.

Out of what is described here, though, I like Lex's idea that projectile weapons (= weapons batteries?) have different effects against armour and shield than energy weapons (= lances) do. Of course, one must remember that 'primitive' Imperial shields are far in advance to what we have today.... I'm not sure if they are such a primitive system though, seeing as Imperial fleets get by pretty well with them; perhaps they are just a different tree of technology (a Dark, Old tree, if you get my meaning... :) ).

Some thoughts, anyway, even though the shield system does work quite well (perhaps, like in Star Trek, ships in BFG incorporate some kind of shielding into their hulls, such that armour 6+ is actually better shielded?).

One final idea: this system need not be more complicated than the current one. What if all shields provided a armour value (depending on race, perhaps) but otherwise worked the same as now? For example, an Imperial cruiser has a shield value of 5+ on all facings. So when attacked, the enemy must roll a 5+ to cause a hit. These hits place blast markers, as usual. When shields are gone, revert back to the armour values. This system does require armour to be more robust once shields are down, though, because armour then plays a small role in the game. As it is, BFG ships rely upon shields to survive, otherwise they get shredded by fire quite easily. It is, perhaps, a quirk of the system that armour is much less valuable than shielding, which has both pros and cons.

Thinking Stone

PS: Lastspartacus, 12 valued armours are the best! Do you have a thread for BFG:Advanced?

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: How to Seperate Shields from Armor?
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2011, 08:12:32 PM »
Im kindof a fan of going with the ships with multiple armor values have tougher shields in those areas also. Ork ships are built to run head on and they dont worry, or think..., about anyone comming at them from behind so they have their strongest armor and shields to the front, middeling armor and shields at the... middle and weakest at the rear. Same for IN they typically have shorter range weapons and are therefore built to close on the enemy with stronger shielding and armor to the front.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.