Worst Imperial fleet ever?

[AndrewChristlieb]

So I'm working on a retribution right now and it seems that this is the least loved Imp bb, myself included. So anyway I've been thinking a lot about this and what I might do with it and I thought what if I mixed it with all of the least favorite Imp ships. Overlord bc, tyrant cruisers, defiant lc, firestorms, falchions.

Retribution 345
Overlord 235
Overlord 235
Tyrant 195
Tyrant 195
Defiant 120
Defiant 120
Defiant 120
Defiant 120
Firestorm x4 160
Falchion x3 105
Fleet Admiral 50

All in all it actually sounds quite good :/ considering these seem to be the most disliked ships in the fleet. Comments ideas? I will admit its not quite legal as the only list you can take all of these capitols in is the bastion list (correct me if I'm wrong) and you can't take falchions in that list but meh.

[horizon]

Retribution AdMech is excellent with AWR by the way. My flagship.

Perhaps your opponents want to run the BFG:revised Retribution?


Funny approach on your list. The 60cm band is quite good filled. The carrier capacity is the fragile point plus easy vps give away if handed incorrectly.

I think Falchions are not bad enough to be in this list, I think they are good for what they are meant to do.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Ya I was on the edge about the falchions myself, they could easily be replaced with 2 firestorms and a reroll (105) or 2 veterans (100). I think I would lean more towards the veterans tho as they give +1 ld to their squadron and have a reroll each, but this does leave the fleet lacking in escorts 

[Sigoroth]

Ya I was on the edge about the falchions myself, they could easily be replaced with 2 firestorms and a reroll (105) or 2 veterans (100). I think I would lean more towards the veterans tho as they give +1 ld to their squadron and have a reroll each, but this does leave the fleet lacking in escorts 

I agree that the Falchions are too good to be considered for this list. If you really wanted crappola ships then the Firestorm is the only IN escort that fits the bill, their other 3 are actually quite good. Otherwise you could pull in some escorts from the Chaos list using the reverse reasoning that allows IN escorts in a Chaos fleet, i.e., your Bastion fleet still has some kicking around. It doesn't matter which type you choose, they're all lemons in one way or another, but the Idolator is the worst as far as I'm concerned, then the Iconoclast. However, what would be the worst choice would be a mixture of Infidels and Idolators.

That notion aside, I think that the use of the veterans is the best (i.e., worst) choice for this fleet. They are the same as a Chaos Lord except that you have to buy the re-roll and you have to form squadrons to use them. The Chaos Lord is a rather 'meh' choice to begin with, being roughly 10 pts overpriced as far as I can see. This makes the veterans particularly bad. On top of this, taking veterans means you're playing a Cadian fleet and so have to roll 2d6 for leadership, taking the lowest, for each ship.

Given the restrictions on the vet captains (0-5, must squadron) and this naff rule I think that they should cost at most 15 pts each. The average leadership drops from 7.5 to 6.972 and the distribution of leadership values gets worse given the Chain of Command rules. For example, if you had 36 ships you would normally expect to see 6 with Ld 6, 12 with Ld 7, 12 with Ld 8 and 6 with Ld 9. With this system you would expect to see 11 with Ld 6 (+83%), 16 with Ld 7 (+33%), only 8 with Ld 8 (-33%) and only 1 with Ld 9 (-83%). Forming squadrons in the former case will give you upto 6 squadrons with Ld 9 and upto 12 with Ld 8. In the latter case you could use your 5 captains to give upto 6 squadrons with Ld 9 and upto 3 with Ld 8. Of course, you could put a captain on the Ld 9 vessel instead to get 10, but it is rarely necessary given modifiers.

Anyway, I digress. The point is that they are truly sucky enough to go into this list.

[AndrewChristlieb]

 Agreed so 2 veterans and the last 5 points can go to a power ram for the Retribution, that's a worthless waste! I believe all bastion fleets have to roll 2 and select the worst for leadership.

All feelings aside tho is it really a bad list? 28 wb (16 with a +shift) and 7 lances @ 60cm, an additional 20 wb @ 45cm, and an additional 8 wb and 12 lances @ 30cm gives a wide selection of choices and gets progressively more potent the closer you get to the enemy, something most IN fleets are incapable of. 8 bays of ordnance, 4x6 torp salvos, and 1x9 torp salvo round the fleet out nicely in regards to ordnance. It lacks the super long range of the nova and the up close power of the dominator/gothic lunar/lunar, but it makes up for that in the variety of ranges and better dependability of wb/lances. Where its really lacking is in ordnance. With 480 points tied up in defiants there are much better ways to get launch bays. The broadside power of 2 gothics make up for this slightly altho the emperor brings 16 wb @ 60cm and a bonus to leadership, much needed with bastion fleet, and 2 dictators bring 12 torpedoes and 12wb@30cm both for less.

[Vaaish]

If you are using pre FAQ 2010 overlords then I'd agree that they are one of the crappiest ships you can pick. Just outmoded in every way by almost any other choice. Post FAQ overlords aren't nearly so bad. Not amazing, but certainly passable. Tyrants also have their place, it's just that the Dominator is more attractive for the higher battery strength and the NC for 5 points more. They aren't bad ships and I usually take them if I run an armageddon list or as a complement to the armageddon CB. Taking the defiants really don't look good in much of any light. You've used up 1/3 of your points in ships that want to stay as far as possible from anything that can shoot at them but pack a pretty large chunk of your lances. Falchions though are excellent escorts. Very effective, but they are only in the armageddon list for IN which makes them less common escort choices since most people want to get ships that are more versatile.