Venerable Battlebarges

[AndrewChristlieb]

Looking into the feasibility of creating new venerable battlebarge types. The reasoning behind this being the problems some players have had with the only "named" version being an ultramarine exclusive. Now there are obviously plenty of alternatives from the offerings suggested in the FAQ2010, but the sedito seems to be much more popular than these. What I'm proposing is an alternative standard battlebarge with the additional shield/ turret and possibly a boost to launch and or weapons strength.

I also think that admech ships should be included as options. This would show the close ties that most chapters have with the admech, it could also represent older ships built with better technology or ships that have been refitted over the years.

I've also been batting around the idea of venerable strike cruisers. Basically just like barges but having one cruiser being able to be chosen from any standard imperial/chaos/admech cruiser (ie not grand heavy or battle etc) and possibly a version of the standard strike cruiser at the 8 hit/ 45* turn level. My reasoning behind this being that in the fluff many standard cruisers are represented as strike cruisers for various chapters, the imperia fists even have a gothic cruiser in the fluff! That's definitely not codex .

So thoughts, comments, ideas for how to accomplish this?

[AndrewChristlieb]

Food for thought


Venerable battlebarge.  450pts

Battleship/12. 20cm  45*  4 shields 6+ armor 4 turrets

Port/starboard weapons.             30cm. 12/12.     L/R
Prow launch bays  Thunderhawk: 20cm. 4 squads.  -
Prow torpedoes.                        30cm. 6.            F
Dorsal bombardment cannon.      30cm. 8.          L/F/R

Venerable battlebarges may not use come to new heading special orders.
The venerable battlebarge may replace their prow torpedoes for an additional 2 thunderhawk launch bays for no change in cost.
The venerable battlebarge may replace their dorsal bombardment cannon for str 3 60cm lances for no change in cost.
The venerable battlebarge may replace their port/starboard weapons with strength 8 60cm weapon batteries for no change in cost.


Venerable strike cruiser.   245 points

Cruiser/8 20cm  45*  2 shields 6+ armor 3 turrets

Port/starboard weapons.             30cm. 8/8.        L/R
Prow launch bays  Thunderhawk: 20cm. 3 squads.  -
Prow bombardment cannon.        30cm. 3.            F
Dorsal bombardment cannon.      30cm. 2.          L/F/R

The venerable strike cruiser may replace their prow thunderhawks for a strength 6 torpedo salvo for -10 points.
The venerable strike cruiser may replace their dorsal AND prow bombardment cannon for str 2 60cm lances for no change in cost.
The venerable strike cruiser may replace their port/starboard weapons with strength 4 30cm bombardment cannon for no change in cost.

[horizon]

I kinda like the current approach. Taking the odd other battleship or Grand or Battle or Heavy cruiser. This fits fluff. Making your own vbb's is cool as well. Just like I did:
http://sg.tacticalwargames.net/forum/index.php?topic=1854.0

[AndrewChristlieb]

I also like the option of taking older imp/chaos ships. It would just be nice for players to have an option for one based off of the standard battlebarge model that is not chapter specific.

[Seahawk]

Agreed; more options have their appeal.

I definitely like the baseline and optional stuff here. I'm not sure how I feel about a venerable strike cruiser that's like the SM version of an Imperial main-line cruiser, but it'd probably work out.

Just an aside; can any of the chaos BB's be a VBB?

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

? As the current rules go, you can use any of the Chaos Battleships, Grand Cruisers and Heavy Cruisers as your VBBs (except of course for the specifically named ones like Terminus Est and certain lance heavy ones) as well as any of the Imperial Navy Battleships (again except for certain lance heavy ones), Grand Cruisers and if I am not mistaken, Battlecruisers.

So what's the problem?

[AndrewChristlieb]

It actually works out closer to a mainline battlecruiser, but yes same idea.

I believe both desolator and despoiler are allowed. The planet killer is not disallowed but... also the styx archon and hades? Correct me if I'm wrong space marines are not really my thing and I don't have the rules in front of me

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Planet Killer is definitely not allowed. The Despoiler I'm pretty sure is allowed. The newer SM iteration I forget if the Desolator is allowed. Have to recheck that.

[Seahawk]

I'm talking about the chaos battlebarges in the 2010 Powers of Chaos pdf: Scion of Prospero, Wage of Sin, Terminus Est, Vengeful Spirit, and Conqueror. Do these all count as usable battlebarges for the following:

Loyalist Venerable Battlebarge: Most of the
Space Marine battlebarges dating from the Great
Crusade were destroyed during the Horus Heresy or
in the intervening millennia. However, a small
number of the battle barges and other truly ancient
vessels from that distant age still remain as
venerated icons harking to a time when the Emperor
himself still walked among his subjects, particularly
among Chapters dating form the First and Second
Founding. A loyalist Space Marine Chapter may
include a single Chaos battle barge in its fleet as its
Venerated Battle barge for the listed point cost and
using the basic profile, painted appropriately and
adding +35 points for having a Space Marine crew.

...or is there some unnamed generic "chaos battle barge" rules I couldn't find?

[horizon]

I wouldn't allow them.

iirc there had been a generic chaos marine barge but it has been forgotten/removed.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

If I am not mistaken, the Vengeful Spirit is the vanilla battle barge used at the height of the Emperor's Crusade and the most rampant one. While Vengeful Spirit may not be taken, I think its class can and should be available to the SM First or Second founding chapters.