May AdMech use assault boats - wording question.

[horizon]

From this thread:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198093&page=2

may AdMech have assault boats. The wording 'do normally not' causes confusion. As in it isn't written as a hard rule but more as a fluffy thing. Aka Nova Cannon is rare.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

No, AM does not have access to ABs. However, during the course of a campaign, AM can get refits from the SM table and if the right refit comes up, it can take TH gunships which are effectively ABs and placed on an AM ship with launch bays of your choice. Note in the SM refit table, THs count as ABs and do not replace the ordnance type the LB can launch. Note also that AM can get Boarding Torps in the same manner. So this is what is meant by "do not normally utilize assault boats or boarding torpedoes".

Similar situation comes up in the Invincible class of fast battleship wherein it can CTNH but can only do so if it manages to get the right refit for it to move up to 30 cm speed.

[horizon]

Hi Admiral,

I do agree, however where is the rule that says so? So I need a Ray or Bob to persuade those people at Warseer.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Which rule do you mean?

It's basically inferred similar to the Invincible ruling on CTNH. The Invincible can CTNH. The Invincible cannot in its present form since it is limited to 25 cm speed and as a battleship it needs to move 15 cm before it can turn and the only way it can do that is if it manages to get the refit which will grant it additional 5 cm speed. There is no rule saying this should be the case but that is what Mod P answered, assuming I remember that particular thread correctly.

So with respect to your question, it is similar. Normally, Admech may not take ABs normally. Meaning not as a standard option. That is what the rules say and you have to follow it. But it can take them in abnormal circumstances and that is because of the Admech Campaign rules on the AM Rules' last page which allows the AM to use IN as well as SM refits. AM can now have access to ABs via SM Refit rules. Otherwise, if the rule is a hard rule which says they can't take ABs (for any reason whatsoever) then even if they roll and get the TH refit on the SM table, they wouldn't be able to take the ABs.

Again, I see nothing preventing it as this is the only key phrase that is written in the AM Campaign Rules on p. 4: "Mechanicus vessels can only earn additional refits from the standard Imperial Navy refit table or the Space Marines reinforcement table". The AB option is there. This is now abnormal circumstances which says they can take the ABs.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Also, to add. This is not a case of "I can make up my own rules on how AM can take ABs because the term 'normally' is vague and open ended". There are only a few ways for a race to be able to take ABs legally if they normally cannot take them. One, as mentioned are the Refits. Another is the Emperor and Oberon (if I am not mistaken) option for IN which is limited to those two ships. So unless the method falls into those categories or actual rules written for other races, then they are precluded from taking them for just any reason.

[horizon]

Keypoint is the Emperor BB-AM in the list. Can or Can it not take its a-boats.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Going by the AM rules, I would say no, the AM Emperor/Oberon cannot take the Shark AB option because the rules of the AM supersede that of the Emperor/Oberon. As a race, they do not use ABs, even if that option was available to them via the Emperor normally. Which is why the SM Refits would work because the SM were the one in the ABs.

However, I can also see the Emperor's rule as being the exception to the race rule and being legal. But the race rule overriding a specific ship option is a more stronger case for me than vice versa. In this case, Ray would be the better judge to settle the matter definitively. In that regard, I think Ray would say yes to allowing it in the instance of the Emperor/Oberon.

[RayB HA]

I maybe a little bias here as I really wanted the Emperor completely removed from the AM! But the Emperors A-boat option is not applicable in this circumstance. The only way to get aboats/boarding torps is through the refit table. There is even a disclaimer in brackets: (including battleships). Granted this could get a little confusing and a disclaimer should have been written!

Bob am I off target here? Is my dislike of the AM Emperor clouding my memory?

Cheers,

RayB

[horizon]

Thanks a lot!

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

And so I am mistaken.  But correct at the same time. LOL!