Specialist Arms Forum
Warmaster => [WM] Warmaster Fantasy Discussion => [WM] Battlereports => Topic started by: Pugwash on October 04, 2009, 03:43:57 PM
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In order to mix things up a little, Munster and I have been playing a few scenarios in our regular warmaster outings. Most recently we tried 'The Battle of Nobhill' (aka Hamburger Hill http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093137 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093137)) which can be found on p81 of the core rulebook. In short; the defender occupies a large hill in the middle of the battlefield with a force half that of the attacker, who deploys 10cm from one edge. A relief force of size equal to the first, can enter from either short edge of the table on a roll of 6 at the start of the defenders turn.
The defender automatically wins if his general is on the hill at the end of the game. The attacker wins if the defenders general isn't on the hill at all when the game ends.
We played with the High Elves defending. Munster paints mostly for FoW, so his army would be his regular 2k High Elf force split in half. On the hill were archers, spears, a repeater bolt thrower, 2 mages, his general and a unit of Silver Helms.
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn114/warmaster888/Warmaster%20Battle/Elvesonahill.jpg)
The relief force was fast moving. Silver helms, chariots, eagles, the dragon rider, another repeater bolt thrower and a hero.
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn114/warmaster888/Warmaster%20Battle/Reinforcementforce.jpg)
As the attacking force, I figured that I needed to hit hard and fast, with a force that could handle the relief foce if necessary, so I made it fast moving by taking 5 knights and 1 pistoliers. I also figured that attacking up a hill would be tough so I prepared to bombard the elves to break up their brigades and hopefully drive them back a little; so 2 cannon an extra handgunners and, to be a little different, a steamtank. I figured that with a single order the entire hill would be in range, so the tank might actually prove useful.
Deploying was tough, given I needed to take the hill in such a way his general would be forced to join a unit and then hopefully get killed, or flee, as well as being prepared to deal with a hard hitting elf strikeforce, although there was a good chance they'd never show. I deployed cannon supported by crossbows to one side of the hill, and the handguns, more crossbows and halberdiers to the other side. In addition I added the steam tank and a unit of pistoliers to that flank to try to slow down the elves if they suddenly materialised. That left my cavalry for the centre, with a screen of flagellants to eat the early shooting.
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn114/warmaster888/Warmaster%20Battle/Empiredeployment.jpg)
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn114/warmaster888/Warmaster%20Battle/Empiredeployment2-1.jpg)
The attacker takes the first turn, so away I went. my Hero ordered the crossbows and handgunners forward, then tried to get the steamtank to trundle forward so it would be in range of the hill. It promptly exploded ::).
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn114/warmaster888/Warmaster%20Battle/Nowyouseeit.jpg)
Before
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn114/warmaster888/Warmaster%20Battle/Nowyoudont.jpg)
After
Now, I should have taken the hint and conceeded right there. Clearly I had angered the dice gods, and they were going to punish me. Foolishly, I removed the model, and said brightly "well, that's never happened before", but my bad luck was just beginning.
The general ordered forward the infantry and cavalry, so that the infantry and 3 units of knights were at the foot of the hill, and within charge reach of the archers and bolt thrower, on the basis that I could initiative chage next turn. Then I used a 'voice of command' to propel a unit of flagellants up the hill to try and take out the pesky repeater bolt thrower before it could unload into my lines. The repeater bolt thrower and achers obliged by cutting down the impudent lunatics with the loss of only one bolt thrower. Little was I to know that this would be one of my more successful charges up the hill :'(
My cannon fire bruised a few of the other archers, but that was about it.
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn114/warmaster888/Warmaster%20Battle/Battle1-1.jpg)
Elf turn 1, no relief force 8). Elf fire, suported by the spell that allows a unit to shoot again, destroyed a stand of flagellants. infantry shuffled forward to support
Having has the artillery soften the defenders up, the cavalry swept forward, 3 units of knights charging up into the archers, while the flagellants had no option but to follow suit. An order blunder ended the turn there, with half the knights still uncomitted - but I figured it wasn't too bad as they could still rapidly re-deploy if the relief force showed up - besides three units of knights on a unit of archers, lock right? Fate had other plans. Stripped of their charging in the open bonus, and attacking defended troops, I still managed an impressivley rubbish roll, which saw the knights loose combat and be driven from the hill, minus a few stands!
The flagellants also got wiped out.
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn114/warmaster888/Warmaster%20Battle/Battle2-2.jpg)
Elf turn 2 Elf turn 1, no relief force 8). More elf shooting at the demoralised knights, driving some back.
Okay, so now I had a couple of dead units, and nothing to show for it, so it was time to get serious. I used initiative charges to send the knights back up the hill, and 2 more units besides. Then I tried to get a unit into the flank but predictably the order was failed by the general. I used the Orb, but failed again. Not yet done, I used wizards to try and voice of command twice, but failed yet again!
Undeterred I threw in my Griffon riding hero into the fray to be sure.
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn114/warmaster888/Warmaster%20Battle/Battle3-2.jpg)
Predictably the charge faltered and the Empire knights were thrown from the hill. Only the knights supported by griffon managed to win (and then only by 1). However, on the follow up the infantry were run down. Trying to seize the advantage the knights tried to advance on into the remaining repeater bolt thrower, only to be beaten back :'(
Elf turn 3 and the relief force arrives ::)
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn114/warmaster888/Warmaster%20Battle/Battle5-2.jpg)
Making no less than 5 successful orders from the hero, they swoop on my infantry brigade and ravage it.
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn114/warmaster888/Warmaster%20Battle/Battle6-2.jpg)
The infantry kill a stand of silver helms and chariots before being obliterated. Now the situation is really bad. My cannon fire has wiped out some elf spearmen, and my knights have killed a total of one unit of elf archers, whilst there are still plenty of elf spearmen, a bolt thrower and even silver helms up there still. To make matters worse the relief force is advancing across my flank with ease. Dark days indeed. Nothing else for it but to try, yet another assault on the hill with the remote hope of killing the general. I try to salvage the remaining infantry, pistoliers and others to regroup to make it a little harder for the relief force, but alas another order blunder.
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn114/warmaster888/Warmaster%20Battle/Battle8-1.jpg)
In the combat on the hill, predictably the dice fail me once more, and all the knights are driven back with heavy losses. The elf general taunts me from the back of the hill. And now the coup de grâce as the dragon and chariots munch through my stranded infantry and surviving knights. The army is broken, phsically and morally.
(http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn114/warmaster888/Warmaster%20Battle/Battle9-1.jpg)
So, all in all, an unmitigated disaster. Lesson learnt; if your steam tank blows up before the game begin, congratulate your opponent, pack up your toys and call it a day ;). I'll sign off with a quote from Hamburger Hill:
"We've been up on that hill ten times, and they still don't think we're serious."
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Great report.
But I would throw your dice away and but new ones ;)
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But couldn't you have done as well representing the burning steam tank with some artful cottonballing?
Otherwise, if you're going to go all-out, why skimp?
(http://www.litkoaero.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/TS088-LRG-250.jpg)
:-).
Nice report, beautiful armies. I wonder if the Steam Tank should come with a standard 'reroll blunders' magic item.
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But couldn't you have done as well representing the burning steam tank with some artful cottonballing?
You know Carrington, I hadn't actually considred the possibility that the tank would abruptly self distruct, so hadn't brought any cottonwool :D. The flame markers were supplied by a nearby WFB player who had watched events with much mirth, and decided to 'help' with the report. I love the marker though!
But I would throw your dice away and but new ones
And incur further punishement from lady-luck, no way! ;)
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Great report Puwash!, and intersting game... Well full of bad luck for the empire... next time you should consider include air support with napalm to play hamburger hill. ;)
This battle breaks all the stadistics ... so many knights (well I think they had lost the charge in open bonus) charging and pushed away... to bad for empire...
hoping to read more reports!
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Thanks for the report. An entertaining read, even if a bit brutal for the Empire. :o
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Great report! Thanks.
I do not know about the rest of you, but in my opinion, and experience, the defender always wins.
Mostly due to:
No charge bonus and only hitting on 5+. Only flanking can "open that can"
and
Relief force arriving on the attackers flank.
So this scenario is a bit boring (predictable), so to speak...
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Thanks for the report.
I totally agree with Wmchaos. Big blocks of infantry with lots of support on a hill are very hard to get down again. It takes lots and lots of cavalry and terror causing monsters to have a chance there. Or you have even tougher infantry attacking with even more support.
But going by the scenario rules should'nt you play the same scenario again with changed positions?
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Exactly. Both ways.
That is the way we did it and it did not matter which army was on the hill. Defenders won.
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I played the scenario once at a Euro GT many years ago, and yes, it is about the most broken out of a bunch of rather broken scenarios that are the scenarios in the WM rulebook. In fact I don't believe that any other than just the 'straight up battle' even work properly as scenarios, and certainly none of them are properly balanced.
Other than a proper full 2nd edition of the rules in a nice printed book, the one thing that Warmaster has always lacked is a decent set of balanced scenarios. They don't even need to be 'break your opponent' type scenarios, the thing is of course that victory can be measured in all sorts of different ways. You could have a 500pt army on a hill facing off against a 1500pt army, lasting more than five turns could count as a victory for the defender on the hill and so on. But.... Testing is the key thing, and of course someone needs to sit down and write the damn things in the first instance.
Now if only I had some spare time, and someone locally who still played Warmaster....
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Now if only I had some spare time, and someone locally who still played Warmaster....
Ah the most elusive item in anyone's WM collection ;)
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Exactly. Both ways.
That is the way we did it and it did not matter which army was on the hill. Defenders won.
Yeah, I don't think I'd put Munster through that. I would say that the relief force giving the defender the same points value as the attacker seems a bit silly, as does the rule that the defender general just needs to be on the hill at the end of the game (if the hill is cleared does this devolve into a game of chase the general? Without flyers it'd be hard!).
FWIW I think that I had the potential to clear the hill. As the archers were not 'supported' by other troops until late in the game, all you need is to actually win combat by 1 and then you start racking up the bonuses again, something I only managed once! Equally a flank charge should have gone a good way to wiping them out. But with my lousy dice (7 rolls of '1' in a row at one point!) and Munster making way above average 6+ saves, I was doomed.
The smart thing might just to have stayed on the baseline and bombard the hill with massed fire, which should wipe out 1 unit per turn, keeping everything else ready to counter the relief force.
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The smart thing might just to have stayed on the baseline and bombard the hill with massed fire, which should wipe out 1 unit per turn, keeping everything else ready to counter the relief force.
"You smell that? Do you smell that?... Napalm, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of napalm in the morning. You know, one time we had a hill bombed, for twelve hours. When it was all over I walked up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' dink body. The smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole hill. Smelled like... victory. Someday this war's gonna end..."
-quoted from Lieutenant Kilgore The Dwarf, Gyrocopter mobile platoon" :P :P :P
IMO This game seems to be design to play with dwarfs (attacker) 2 cannons + 2 flame throwers + 2 girocopter + 4 troll slayers staright to the hill. The warriors supported by 1 or 2 rangers (hard as a wall) await the entry of enemy reinforces. The rest of points thunderers, to give "thunder" to the flank of the hill. One Dwarf general + hero. Hey, I should play that battle, but unfortunatly I am afraid I do not have these forces of dwarfs!
(I do not make the math in points, because I am writting by heart)
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It was brutal, when even the bolt thrower could see off the fanatics, and then saw off some flank charging knights, I knew Pugwash was going to have a bad day with the dice. Add in I never needed to use my dispel scroll on his two mages...
I don't think Ive ever seen such bad dice rolling... the steam tank was definitely an omen!