Specialist Arms Forum
Warmaster => [WM] Warmaster Fantasy Discussion => Topic started by: calmacil on July 30, 2015, 02:59:08 PM
-
Me and my friends enjoy warmaster, but we do like to tailor the game to our own style with houserules.
One thing that has come up quite a lot recently is the length of time a game takes. This may be our own fault with chatting, making cups of tea, awesome armour saves and pondering. We also play quite a few multiplayer games, this contributes to the length of the game.
We have warmaster skirmish rules already, which is great fun. I would like to attempt an alternative "fast warmaster"
Please note, this is just an alternative version, and isn't meant to replace the basic rules
Personally i think the command phase, magic/shooting phase are already quick enough. I can't see how they can be improved upon.
The phase I'd like to concentrate on is the combat phase. As it stands a unit charges in (possible stand & shoot), you work out your dice, roll attacks, roll armour saves, determine winner, pursuit, attack again, possible advance and repeat.
What I'm proposing is one charge, and no pursuit or advance. This would also reduce the advantage of cavalry (and i realise the cost of certain units would have to be looked at, eg. Dwarf Rangers) After all the attacks and armour saves from both sides are rolled, all units move back X cm to regroup (somewhere around 15cm?)
This one round of combat would be more devastating than a regular charge (otherwise killing units would be very difficult) To represent this all units hit on a 3+ in the open, and 4+ in difficult terrain. Charging units would still get +1 to attack
We intend to play test this very soon. Does anyone have any other ideas? or any positive contributions?
-
Very interesting - I am certainly interested in how your group goes with this!
-
Thanks Stormwind, i'll keep you updated if it worked or didn't work. ;D
-
That is actually interesting. I hate going through a long round of combats that the defenders have limited chance of winning but must play out due to the effect on the attackers' final position and potential advance moves.
-
Interesting idea.
One of the areas of WM that can get very tedious and complex is big combats that go on for rounds and rounds within the same turn.
+1 to hit will be quite significant - it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
-
Another option might just be to fight 1 round of combat. Maybe I'll try that in my next game. Do hear that it might be more difficult to kill units, but maybe the winners combat result choice (pursue , stand, fall back ) becomes more interesting.
-
Limiting combat sounds interesting - perhaps just even a 3 round limit would be enough.
Sometimes I play an evenly matched affair that seems to go 6 rounds due to dice rolls.
-
Another option might just be to fight 1 round of combat. Maybe I'll try that in my next game. Do hear that it might be more difficult to kill units, but maybe the winners combat result choice (pursue , stand, fall back ) becomes more interesting.
Yeah I did mean one round of combat, apologies if I didn't make that clear
One possible issue I've thought of is "overkill". Let's say I have an orc & goblin brigade with a unit of goblins at the front and 2 units of orcs behind them. If I'm charged by 2 units of Silver Helms and they inflict 15 wounds on my goblins, should the excess wounds be transferred to the unit behind?? I think it should
I had another idea. I have no clue if this would work.
I was thinking of how units can inflict more damage if there's only one round of combat (if the +1 to hit isn't enough?)
My idea is fairly simple, it probably sounds more complicated than it is. It's a version of rock, paper, scissors with 5 (if you've ever seen.Big Bang Theory it's Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock) The categories for warmaster will be Infantry, Cavalry, Chariots, Monsters, Flyers (machines as monsters?)
Each type of unit gets a bonus v's 1 unit. Eg cavalry get +1 dice v's infantry. Flyers get +1 v's cavalry etc
The idea was to make manoeuvring different components of your army more important
A possible problem I can foresee is the composition of certain armies, they don't have an even spread of units (dwarfs have no cavalry, orcs have no flyers)
Just an idea, what do you think?
-
Hail Caesar basically does this. They only allow one round of combat per turn, and models have both a "Clash" stat for the first round and a "Sustain" stat for future turns.
-
Hail Caesar basically does this.
Ah i didn't know that!! thank you, and I work for Warlord Games as well. ::)
-
What prevents you from charging and your opponent getting behind you on a subsequent turn?
-
I imagine that supporting models in close support would prevent this - but HC also has a few rules that dictate how you can move while you have an enemy to your front within 12". I'm not an expert, as I havent played it yet and have only read it through once, but it seems like it is designed to prevent this on purpose.
Check out Ady's fantasy mods for HC at http://adyswargamesden.com/category/shadow-storm/ (http://adyswargamesden.com/category/shadow-storm/)
-
Can I just say that the Clash/Sustain idea is interesting, and there's a similar mechanic in Lion Rampant where a unit has an Attack/Defense dual stat as well. A unit with a poor defense stat might have a counter-charge option which lets it use it's Attack stat instead.
-
What prevents you from charging and your opponent getting behind you on a subsequent turn?
Nothing prevents it. But with the rules as they stand now wouldn't you be further into your enemy lines? You'd charge and attack, pursue, pursue again, and maybe advance, then fall back. But with these rules you'd charge & attack then fall back.
Also, I'd never considered the auto destroy if a stand is pushed back through an enemy stand. With the rules I was considering there wouldn't necessarily be a need for that because there is no push back & pursue
I've just thought. With the one combat round there is no need to work out combat results, so infantry supporting becomes redundant. As an option how about something similar to warhammer 8th edition..... The supporting infantry adds one dice ....... Too OP?
-
Another option for more lethal combat would be to borrow from Epic Armageddon. The difference in combat resolution inflicts the same amount of extra hits. Also, the resolution is not reset between rounds of combat. Combination of the two sure would decrease the amount of rounds, much to the detriment of the defender however I imagine.
-
These kind of options suggest having to modify rules for units for each army which I think is not in the remit of the idea of a swifter game.
-
WMA caps combats to three rounds (i.e. atleast one round of combat and then 2 rounds of pursuit or 1 advance). Maxing out at three rounds might give you a slight speed bump, but more than that it also reduces the length of your/your opponents turn. The game always seems more fun when you're charging, as opposed to be charged.
To take that idea one step further, you can say each unit may only have three orders and combats, total. In other words, a unit can:
1) Get three orders
2) Get three orders and fight one round of combat
3) Get two orders and fight two rounds of combat
4) Get one order/initiative charge and fight three rounds of combat
Tracking that might get wonky, you'd likely need some tokens to remember which order/combat round a unit was on. Then there's some timing issues that would need to be addressed (being drawn in, a unit on its third round advancing into a combat where a friendly unit is on its first, etc).
----
One the one round of combat idea, you could mitigate the enemy sneaking around you getting auto-destroyed by being driven back into them by limiting each unit to one order. Flyers would still be a problem though.
Another thing you can do is allow the winner of a single round of combat to choose to pursue, and count the bonuses normally in the opponents turn. In other words:
My elves charge your orcs and win by 3.
The Orcs fallback 3.
If it looks like you won't be able to get behind them in your command phase I can choose to pursue.
You do your command phase, getting one order per unit.
In the combat phase we resolve the combat from last turn. My elves get +2 dice each (pursuit and 3cm of fallback).
-
Is one option to keep the combat rules pretty much 'as is' but not move anything. No pushing backwards and forwards, no lapping round etc, no break through moves. Just roll the dice once, remove casualties, repeat, repeat? Makes the game much less 'fiddly'.
Dave