Specialist Arms Forum
Warmaster => [WM] Warmaster Fantasy Discussion => Topic started by: kyussinchains on March 22, 2015, 11:15:57 PM
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While I haven't got an army yet, I will definitely be getting one soon somehow and in a similar vein to the dwarf tactics thread I thought the seasoned barons and viscounts of this board could come and share their tales of crushing victories so we young errant ones may learn from their wisdom
For me the list seems simple, take as many knights as you can fit in, then send them charging off at the enemy.... but it can't be that simple surely?
I am wondering how the peasant horde may work (if at all!) Does anyone ever bother with the trebuchet? Do you prefer the original list or the update with pilgrims and pegasus knights? How many heroes and enchantresses do you bring along?
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I've never seen them played, but rumblings I've heard are that you'll want quite a few Squires to hide your Knights behind (both for shooting protection and to stop their pesky auto-charging). Bowmen are particularly useful for pushing away the enemy's light distracting units, and men-at-arms are needed to hold terrain or try and flush enemy out of terrain (since Knights are very limited in that way).
An all-Knight army may win a few games, but most opponents should learn that they can bait your Knights with a required charge using a sacrificial unit, with a second sacrificial unit for the Knight's follow-up. Then the Knights can be counter-charged- other cavalry can try and win in prolonged combats, infantry and the like can try and surround the Knights to wipe them out. Concentrated shooting from close range will also hurt (especially cannons). Even if you take as many Knights as possible you'll still have a very low breakpoint, and quickly find yourself in a bad position- especially as any surviving 1 or 2 stand Knight units must still charge, and probably invite their own death.
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Bretoninans fight from the castle.
Use a (cheap) line of infantry (peasants backed with spearmen or vv as walls, with shooty "towers"and make the enemy attack that wasting attacks and followup
As a second line/mobile reserve position the knight behind that screen, in initiative charge range
and have one flanking brigade of knight and squires prepared to expoit an enemy that offeres a refused flank
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thanks chaps! exactly the sort of thing I wanted to see!
what kind of character ratio are we looking at for a 'typical' army
I also hadn't considered the importance of men at arms as fighting units to winkle enemies out of cover either
keep the tips and shared experiences coming!
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Another question... are grail knights worth it? Or is it better to save the points for other things?
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There is a bret-army up on ebay atm. Looks pretty nice but will probably go for nuts amounts of money.
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The main thing to remember is that only knights count as break points. All other units (peasants, archers, men at arms, squires) are expendable, so shove them out first and use them to control the field. Knights, Grail Knights and pegasi knights are your behind the lines shock troops.
Also as others said use archers and I would add trebuchet. The combination of archers/trebuchet and screens of no-break-point-causing infantry should make it easier to rule the field...
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Another question... are grail knights worth it? Or is it better to save the points for other things?
+1 attack charge bonus in the open for 10 pts. pr. unit. Oh yeah! Always max out of them!!
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I've played against Bret's more than any other warmaster army.
My friend uses the tactics of maxing out grail knights, hiding his knights behind squires, and infantry to draw out my army (they are throw away units to him)
I find trebuchets annoying (if they annoy me = they are good) if possible use these to get enemy units off a hill so your cavalry can hit them in the open
My friend has no pegasus knights. I'm pleased about this because a flying unit combined with a cavalry charge would be brilliant. Open ground will be your friend, hills your enemy
And that spell that allows one unit to move/charge in the magic phase is very good if used on cavalry
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I've faced two separate Bretonnian generals over my Warmaster career and have only one thing to add. Avoid woods like the plague with your cavalry. The pesky opposing infantry will hide in them, charge out of them and/or try to pin you against them. :)
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Use the pegasus knights versus opponents heavy hitters in the flank. Peasants with the pilgrims.
Trebutchet only versus opponents without flyers.
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so based on this thread, I was thinking of something like this as a standard sort of build:
General
Hero - pegasus + sword of might
Hero
Enchantress
Enchantress
6x knights
2x grail knights
3x squires
3x men at arms
2x bowmen
1x peasants
trebuchet
form the knights and grail knights into 2-3 brigades and march them round with a screen of squires in front as bullet catchers and to stop them charging off after the first enemy unit they clap eyes on.... use the men at arms in a big block to hunt down infantry trying to hide in woods, the trebuchet and bowmen are to drive back the enemy and disrupt brigades for the knights to get stuck into, the trebuchet may even get lucky and knock the odd stand off... the peasants just brimble around trying to get in the way of the enemy
the pegasus hero flaps around and joins units to increase hitting power, the other hero hangs back for when the dude on the flying horse gets killed, the enchantresses are to try and cast a protective spell or two, or the 'charge madly at the enemy' spell
seem sensible?
I'm just getting my head round the tournament list, but I'll definitely want some pegasus knights and grail pilgrims just for the models :)
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Pegasus Knights and pilgrims:
If you have played them you don't want to have them only for the models. They make the Bretonnians much better to play.
;D
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so based on this thread, I was thinking of something like this as a standard sort of build:
General
Hero - pegasus + sword of might
Hero
Enchantress
Enchantress
6x knights
2x grail knights
3x squires
3x men at arms
2x bowmen
1x peasants
trebuchet
seem sensible?
At 2000 pts I would trade in the Trebuchet and peasants for another unit of Knights. Giving you a break point of 5 instead of 4.
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You do definitely want an odd number of knights for the break point.
I'd lose one unit of knights and buy some more expendable infantry to lure the enemy out myself.
Dave
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do most people tend to use the tournament or original list?
looking at the tournament list, the ability to take pegasus knights (which seem super cheap for their potency) and more than a single trebuchet seems a no-brainer....
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The doule-trebuchet is also toned down from 6 shots to 4.
Pegasus knights are good, but they're about as vulnerable as your other Knights and can't be sacrificed (counting for break point). Combine that with their requirement to charge on initiative and they can be tricky to get the most from.
Counter to what I've interpreted some people's advice to be: There's a problem in sending the non-Knights in first to weaken the enemy. Although they don't count for break point, those units do count for victory points, and breaking the enemy isn't auto-win (it always comes down to VPs, but a broken enemy can only get a draw at best). If you send your regular men in unsupported and they all die, you can easily find yourself only having drawn games as you break your opponent but lose on VPs.
I'll just state again- this is all from reading Bretonnian tactics threads, never having seen them played.
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Counter to what I've interpreted some people's advice to be: There's a problem in sending the non-Knights in first to weaken the enemy. Although they don't count for break point, those units do count for victory points, and breaking the enemy isn't auto-win (it always comes down to VPs, but a broken enemy can only get a draw at best). If you send your regular men in unsupported and they all die, you can easily find yourself only having drawn games as you break your opponent but lose on VPs.
Yup... a good Bret player will be a bean-counter.... will I have nuff peasants left to get the crops of the field
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do most people tend to use the tournament or original list?
looking at the tournament list, the ability to take pegasus knights (which seem super cheap for their potency) and more than a single trebuchet seems a no-brainer....
I agree the pegasus knights are not a no-brain due to their vulnerability and break point issue. They've got to be played very carefuly. But what is a no-brainer in my eyes is the reliqe. I like the idea itself, but I'm still not getting why it is so cheap. The price/efficiency makes it "must have" option and is perfectly spoiling smaller than 2k games.
What was the original idea of enhencing the list anyway? I've never played against the original list. Was it too easy to defeat?
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I believe it was just to give the Bret list a few more options.
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I believe it was just to give the Bret list a few more options.
And Spiritus wanted to make it slightly more based on the WHFB Bret list
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Agree with Aldhick, I had played against brets, and relic is too much... for few points.
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What was the original idea of enhencing the list anyway? I've never played against the original list. Was it too easy to defeat?
The original list is still competitive, they still give my orcs a good game.
We decided to change a rule when we have multi player games. We prefer to have one break point number, rather then each army with it's own. So when in multi player games the Bret's have break points the same as everyone else. We prefer it