Specialist Arms Forum
Warmaster => [WM] Warmaster Fantasy Discussion => Topic started by: Draccan on November 09, 2014, 05:53:59 PM
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What do you guys think about this Wood Elf Army List (as opposed to the experimental standard one):
http://www.google.dk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.specialist-arms.com%2Ffanatic%2F89we.pdf&ei=k6NfVLbXAsfgapGbgvgD&usg=AFQjCNFY5GlkFSqPosQ1Qy_m9s6cM77ZfQ&sig2=1cCEFoj9hjBAwz-ruG-gCg&bvm=bv.79189006,d.d2s&cad=rja
I am not familiar with it's history, but it seems to be more inclusive and well thought of when compared to the standard experimental one...
Thoughts?
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IMHO I prefere the one that appeared in warmaster magazine
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Why?
This one? Warmaster Trial Armies Compendium 2009
http://wm-selector.appspot.com/resources/Warmaster_Trial_Armies_2009.pdf
?
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Both list are from Mr. Hildreth, and I do not want to discourage using them or distrust his work, what is always welcome.
Army trial list Mr Hildreth + Atkins fits better with warmaster ruleset, and is an improve from orignial Hildreth list.
But what I like (it is my opinion) is the simple one that appear in warmaster magazine, I think in nº6. Is not so sophisticated and have a normal imput of troops (more of ten for a warmaster list seems to me too much). It is.. more humble, more easy, more balance, and with more flavour of the original lists.
Hope I answerd your question, but is a matter of taste, I do not want to say the work of Mr. Hildreth and Atkins is not worthy or good.
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Oh wow, this looks interesting.
I think the Skirmishing rule is way too complex and powerful, especially suggesting that infantry basically have NO terrain they can't just scoot over.
A couple of things seem a little undercosted in the list considering their special rules and how they are thematically going to be fighting on a board that probably has a bunch of woods.
If I was going to use it, I wouldn't bother with Wardancers or Waywatchers. Wardancers especially there is just no suitable proxy unit.
The problem I find with the Warmaster App list is the 3/2 minimum units for Eternal Guard and Glade Guard and the inability to run a true Treeman/Treekin unit or Giant model.
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The one you (jchaos) speak of is it available online?
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Oh wow, this looks interesting.
I think the Skirmishing rule is way too complex and powerful, especially suggesting that infantry basically have NO terrain they can't just scoot over.
A couple of things seem a little undercosted in the list considering their special rules and how they are thematically going to be fighting on a board that probably has a bunch of woods.
If I was going to use it, I wouldn't bother with Wardancers or Waywatchers. Wardancers especially there is just no suitable proxy unit.
The problem I find with the Warmaster App list is the 3/2 minimum units for Eternal Guard and Glade Guard and the inability to run a true Treeman/Treekin unit or Giant model.
Yeah the Exp. army list from the Warmaster App is limited. They have no eagles, no treekin and the treeman is a character and not a monster unit. I am not so happy with that list. The other list though has only 1 stand pr. waywatchers unit and that's probably not going to work... But of those two lists I prefer the one from google docs..
But reading it more closely I am not too crazy about the skirmishing rule. Maybe playing that list and just ignoring that rule.. ?
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The one you (jchaos) speak of is it available online?
I do not have the list in pdf. And my warmagzines are in other city (500 km far from here). Maybe someone else could take a shot of the page of warmaster magazine and share it here.
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If you read it carefully, the skirmishing rule is only applied if you increase the cost of each unit by at least 5 points!
An alternative I would think is letting you use the Empire skirmisher unit rules and treat those as a proxy for all the Waywatcher/wardancer type units.
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Seems more and more like they need a complete rewrite... :'(
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As far as I understood it, the list was always meant to be overpowered because the Wood Elves don't really leave the forest, they are 90% of the time defending the forest from Brets / Beastmen / Chaos / Skaven trying to cut it down.
So you were meant to be running a smaller defensive army with lots of advantages against a "normal" attacking or marauding army.
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As far as I understood it, the list was always meant to be overpowered because the Wood Elves don't really leave the forest, they are 90% of the time defending the forest from Brets / Beastmen / Chaos / Skaven trying to cut it down.
So you were meant to be running a smaller defensive army with lots of advantages against a "normal" attacking or marauding army.
Correct..... and there is an even more whacky WE list around, which is objective driven and allows additional terrain-pieces to be bought as part of the list. With that list you will ALWAYS play "defend the Realm" (or rather the woodlands
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It would certainly be interesting to play on a board with no hills or roads - just loads of smaller woods. Making artillery impossible and cavalry very difficult to use!
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I prefer the google docs version Draccan posted for a few reasons
1) Variety- I know most Warmaster armies have been cut down on purpose, but I've always gone and expanded them anyway- for example my Orcs and Goblins (already one of the biggest lists) now has savage orcs, savage orc boar boyz and spider riders- plus more to come. This is related to the next point...
2) I like my Warmaster armies to resemble my Warhammer armies, so I like the option of having Eagles in my Warmaster army, accompanied by Warhawk Riders. I also tend to theme my Warhammer armies, so I like to be able to give a similar theme to my Warmaster armies, but that's currently difficult because...
3) Restrictions- I'm making a small 1000pt Wood Elf force and want to have a good mix of units. In the Trial Armies list that's just not possible- more than 500pts in the first 1000pts must go to minimum requirements. Most units are then expensive, so I can only field another 2-3 units and not have the variety I want. I can't take a lot of Glade Riders or Wild Riders and have a strong mounted contingent to the army, they'll always be outnumbered by the 5 minimum infantry requirements. Similarly, I'd like a treeman- they're iconic. You can't take one until 2000pts in the Trial Armies list.
As Stormwind mentioned, the Skirmisher rule doesn't apply unless you add an extra 5pts per unit, so you can ignore it if you want. I admit it sounds strong- from what I understand it's from Ancients, so to those familiar with WMA it may be a simple rule to play.
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Hi all, I just found a document with the wood army list of the warmaster magazine nº8.
If someone is interested in the document they could pm to jchaos79@yahoo.es
This list seems to be the original list of Mr. Artkins. For my taste is perfect for warmaster.
If variety like wardancers is wished could be made with alternative figures and use glade warrior + object or banner. But is just my opinion.
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Just received the list. Haven't read all the fine print yet.
It has the following units:
Glade Guard
Archers
Glade Riders
Chariots
Giant Eagles
Treemen
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General
Heroes
Mage
Giant Eagle (mount)
Forest Dragon (mount)
Chariot (mount)
Mages use HE spells.
Special rules include, do not suffer -1 in woodland to command, +1 to dice roll against targets in the open when shooting.
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In comparison where this WE list has 6 non-character, non-mount entries: Empire has 10, HE has 8, Bretonnia has 7, Chaos has 11, Orcs has 10, Tomb Kings has 9, dwarfs has 7 and I believe Kislev just 6.
Also I note that this WE list has chariots which is imho not needed or very wood elf like. I know chariots are common in Warhammer Fantasy since the beginning for Wood Elves, but not a needed unit.
In fact this list, while not terrible, is just not another High Elf list with a treeman stuck in. The Google Docs version has 11 units. While the add-on skirmish rule is bad and could be ignored, I like the model variety. It is not over the top crazy, but allows variety to be built in. Dryads and Treekin is more important than chariots to me. Wild Riders are great and go well with Eureka models. Having both Warhawk riders and Giant Eagles allow one to use more model options and proxies.
Again - this is just a personal preference and I understand the "vanilla" keep-it-simple argument as well!
Cheers
Draccan
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I wouldn't mind Wood Elves having chariots. They used to in Fantasy, at around the time period when Warmaster appeared (IIRC), and Warmaster has maintained the 'old school' Fantasy feel I like, which has been lost in more recent times. Background wise, not all of Athel Loren is dense forest- it also has open plains (though these have disappeared and reappeared again in recent Fantasy books).
Dryads are missing from the list, and would be a must for me.
If you want to keep the options down Wild Riders can be made by giving a banner or other item to Glade Riders, Warhawk Riders and Eagles could use the same rules and Wardancers could proxy as Glade Guard (now Eternal Guard). I don't see much reason to limit the WE's too harshly on unit options though- they've always been a more detailed faction than armies like Kislev, and the dual elf/forest spirit nature is important to show.
Overall I'm not a fan of list Draccan has posted recently, and much prefer the google docs one given earlier.
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We are in agreement then on the three lists..